From nicolas.alpi at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 19:53:44 2015
From: nicolas.alpi at gmail.com (nicolas alpi)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 19:53:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Kicked out on Friday!?
In-Reply-To: <D115EC91.56F29%chris@tallhat.com>
References: <54EF4643.6080806@mattpass.com> <D115EC91.56F29%chris@tallhat.com>
Message-ID: <CAC_bacNfuJvaSJPURJvfx5mP74mdLkkV-=K021xpc=Xs+GqMAg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Matt,

If everything else fails, CookiesHQ always welcomes people looking for a
desk anytime. We only ask for biscuits in return :)

http://cookieshq.co.uk

Let me know (nicolas at cookieshq.co.uk)

Nic

Nicolas Alpi, cookies eater
Ruby on Rails, Javascript developer at CookiesHQ
@spyou <http://www.twitter.com/spyou> :: nicolas.alpi
<http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=28535699> ::
http://www.cookieshq.co.uk

On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Chris Dawson <chris at tallhat.com> wrote:

> in central bath the guild coworking do day passes. and it's very nice here!
> main "engine room" for hotdesks, quiet 'lab' room, meeting rooms for
> internal/external hire, internal skype rooms etc...
>
> http://www.theguildhub.co.uk
>
> chris
>
> > From: Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com>
>
> > So, is there anywhere I can work on Friday away from home (live in
> > Tetbury but happy to commute to Bristol or Bath).
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From matt at mattpass.com  Mon Mar  2 08:55:29 2015
From: matt at mattpass.com (Matt Pass)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 08:55:29 +0000
Subject: [_] Kicked out on Friday!?
In-Reply-To: <CAC_bacNfuJvaSJPURJvfx5mP74mdLkkV-=K021xpc=Xs+GqMAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54EF4643.6080806@mattpass.com> <D115EC91.56F29%chris@tallhat.com>
 <CAC_bacNfuJvaSJPURJvfx5mP74mdLkkV-=K021xpc=Xs+GqMAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F42581.4070007@mattpass.com>

Thanks Nic - so many people have offered great spaces to work.

I visited the peeps at Cluster in Stroud and was pretty cool there, plus 
is close to home, so that's useful.

However, going to try and make an effort to see everyone who's kindly 
offered at some point, yourselves included.

Cheers!
Matt

On 01/03/2015 19:53, nicolas alpi wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
> If everything else fails, CookiesHQ always welcomes people looking for a
> desk anytime. We only ask for biscuits in return :)
>
> http://cookieshq.co.uk
>
> Let me know (nicolas at cookieshq.co.uk)
>
> Nic
>
> Nicolas Alpi, cookies eater
> Ruby on Rails, Javascript developer at CookiesHQ
> @spyou <http://www.twitter.com/spyou> :: nicolas.alpi
> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=28535699> ::
> http://www.cookieshq.co.uk
>
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Chris Dawson <chris at tallhat.com> wrote:
>
>> in central bath the guild coworking do day passes. and it's very nice here!
>> main "engine room" for hotdesks, quiet 'lab' room, meeting rooms for
>> internal/external hire, internal skype rooms etc...
>>
>> http://www.theguildhub.co.uk
>>
>> chris
>>
>>> From: Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com>
>>> So, is there anywhere I can work on Friday away from home (live in
>>> Tetbury but happy to commute to Bristol or Bath).
>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>



From tim at matter2media.com  Mon Mar  2 10:54:54 2015
From: tim at matter2media.com (Tim Kindberg)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:54:54 +0000
Subject: [_] Android test device collection
Message-ID: <54F4417E.50805@matter2media.com>

Dear _,

Maybe I imagined it (can't find a reference in the archives), but is 
there somewhere in Bristol that has a collection of Android devices for 
testing apps?

Thanks very much for any pointers,

Tim

-- 
Tim Kindberg
nthscreen.tv
matter2media.com
Pervasive Media Studio
Bristol
UK
+44 (0)7954 582814


From nigel at redefine.uk  Mon Mar  2 11:36:14 2015
From: nigel at redefine.uk (Nigel Dunn)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 11:36:14 +0000
Subject: [_] Android test device collection
In-Reply-To: <54F4417E.50805@matter2media.com>
References: <54F4417E.50805@matter2media.com>
Message-ID: <CABA4UWhjvsp=v_owYRY+hxCsnt-ECvcquc34Z7NXXTNH6YnuTg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tim

You're probably remembering http://odlbristol.co.uk/

Cheers

Nigel

---------------------------------
Nigel Dunn
Redefine

0117 370 6252
http://www.redefine.co.uk

On 2 March 2015 at 10:54, Tim Kindberg <tim at matter2media.com> wrote:

> Dear _,
>
> Maybe I imagined it (can't find a reference in the archives), but is there
> somewhere in Bristol that has a collection of Android devices for testing
> apps?
>
> Thanks very much for any pointers,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Kindberg
> nthscreen.tv
> matter2media.com
> Pervasive Media Studio
> Bristol
> UK
> +44 (0)7954 582814
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Mon Mar  2 11:53:21 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 11:53:21 +0000
Subject: [_] Android test device collection
In-Reply-To: <CABA4UWhjvsp=v_owYRY+hxCsnt-ECvcquc34Z7NXXTNH6YnuTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F4417E.50805@matter2media.com>
 <CABA4UWhjvsp=v_owYRY+hxCsnt-ECvcquc34Z7NXXTNH6YnuTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEh=ruJqVuWvebbNJhR7XQYMNcDHJAHzzvRkxYd-chAg9Bg@mail.gmail.com>

hi Tim,

also check out:

http://kedutesting.co.uk/mobile-device-lab/

m


On 2 March 2015 at 11:36, Nigel Dunn <nigel at redefine.uk> wrote:

> Hi Tim
>
> You're probably remembering http://odlbristol.co.uk/
>
> Cheers
>
> Nigel
>
> ---------------------------------
> Nigel Dunn
> Redefine
>
> 0117 370 6252
> http://www.redefine.co.uk
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 10:54, Tim Kindberg <tim at matter2media.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear _,
> >
> > Maybe I imagined it (can't find a reference in the archives), but is
> there
> > somewhere in Bristol that has a collection of Android devices for testing
> > apps?
> >
> > Thanks very much for any pointers,
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --
> > Tim Kindberg
> > nthscreen.tv
> > matter2media.com
> > Pervasive Media Studio
> > Bristol
> > UK
> > +44 (0)7954 582814
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From tim at matter2media.com  Mon Mar  2 12:01:14 2015
From: tim at matter2media.com (Tim Kindberg)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 12:01:14 +0000
Subject: [_] Android test device collection
In-Reply-To: <CA+=VEh=ruJqVuWvebbNJhR7XQYMNcDHJAHzzvRkxYd-chAg9Bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F4417E.50805@matter2media.com>
 <CABA4UWhjvsp=v_owYRY+hxCsnt-ECvcquc34Z7NXXTNH6YnuTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=VEh=ruJqVuWvebbNJhR7XQYMNcDHJAHzzvRkxYd-chAg9Bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F4510A.8050802@matter2media.com>

Thanks Mark & Nigel,

It was the Open Device Lab I was thinking of. Kedu looks to be a paid 
service; I'm fine with doing the testing myself.

Cheers,

Tim

On 02/03/2015 11:53, Mark Chitty wrote:
> hi Tim,
>
> also check out:
>
> http://kedutesting.co.uk/mobile-device-lab/
>
> m
>
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 11:36, Nigel Dunn <nigel at redefine.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tim
>>
>> You're probably remembering http://odlbristol.co.uk/
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Nigel Dunn
>> Redefine
>>
>> 0117 370 6252
>> http://www.redefine.co.uk
>>
>> On 2 March 2015 at 10:54, Tim Kindberg <tim at matter2media.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear _,
>>>
>>> Maybe I imagined it (can't find a reference in the archives), but is
>> there
>>> somewhere in Bristol that has a collection of Android devices for testing
>>> apps?
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for any pointers,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tim Kindberg
>>> nthscreen.tv
>>> matter2media.com
>>> Pervasive Media Studio
>>> Bristol
>>> UK
>>> +44 (0)7954 582814
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>
>

-- 
Tim Kindberg
nthscreen.tv
matter2media.com
Pervasive Media Studio
Bristol
UK
+44 (0)7954 582814


From phil at web2wire.com  Mon Mar  2 10:52:47 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 10:52:47 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
Message-ID: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>

Hi all,

I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging 
me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really 
gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add 
when doing my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them 
is via the phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on 
hold) or by writing them a letter!

So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that 
isn't stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account 
which I'm happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.

Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or 
imposes a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and 
being able to actually pay them...

Cheers

Phil


From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Mon Mar  2 12:41:45 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 20:41:45 +0800
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>

Have bad experience with HSBC, very last century. Good experience with Triodos Bank (in The Netherlands, they seem to use the same internet banking software in the UK). Not fancy, but it works well and does what it says on the tin and does that well (without having you jump through lots of hoops). Small bank that picks up the phone swiftly. 

> On 2 mrt. 2015, at 18:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by writing them a letter!
> 
> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which I'm happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
> 
> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or imposes a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being able to actually pay them...
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Phil
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From bjreed83 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 12:52:38 2015
From: bjreed83 at gmail.com (Ben Reed)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 12:52:38 +0000
Subject: [_] OT: Towbar fitting
In-Reply-To: <075e01d051a2$5b18fb20$114af160$@comcar.co.uk>
References: <CAHqjGZFZNPnj0GA1A-3qKDD91-ynp1Nt3WJMH4AtY08Kx=bduw@mail.gmail.com>
 <075e01d051a2$5b18fb20$114af160$@comcar.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHqjGZG+d9Whf3wp2VSZLXEFEh552v=iQwuA9BZC=BZw1fMKuA@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, this ended up in spam! Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Rupert Russell <rtr at comcar.co.uk> wrote:

> LNB towbars are good.
>
> http://www.lnbtowbars.co.uk/index.php/towbars-lnb_towbars_expert_tow_bar_fit
> ting_bristol/?k=2417:38
> <http://www.lnbtowbars.co.uk/index.php/towbars-lnb_towbars_expert_tow_bar_fitting_bristol/?k=2417:38>
> ::
>
> Beware that if you opt for a fixed towbar you need to inform your insurance
> company as they are a frequent cause of damage to other vehicles !
>
>
> Regards
>
> Rupert Russell
>
> Director
> Carmen Data Ltd
> 15A Etloe Road, Westbury Park, Bristol BS6 7NZ
>
> Tel: 0117 330 1439
> Email: rtr at comcar.co.uk
> Web: http://carmendata.co.uk
>
> Company car tax calculators at http://comcar.co.uk
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of
> Ben Reed
> Sent: 26 February 2015 07:54
> To: underscore
> Subject: [_] OT: Towbar fitting
>
> Morning all,
>
> Can anybody recommend a good, reasonably priced place for getting a towbar
> fitted?
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
> -----------
> Ben
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
-----------
Ben

From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 12:54:21 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 12:54:21 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
Message-ID: <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

>  Triodos Bank (in The Netherlands, they seem to use the same internet banking software in the UK). 

I'm currently in the middle of a similar exercise and spoke with Triodos last week. They look to be a great bank but get minus points for not offering credit facilities of any kind (ie no form of credit card for expenses and no overdraft facility). Not sure if that's useful infor or not for you but thought I'd mention.

FYI - We're with NatWest and they're awful; excessive charges for ? and $ activity, card reader for payment activities etc. A shame really as our account manager is smashing but the bank are sods.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 13:10:23 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:10:23 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>

Why is everybody bashing the card reader? Seemed like a good idea to me.

Steve

On 2 March 2015 at 12:54, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>  Triodos Bank (in The Netherlands, they seem to use the same internet banking software in the UK).
>
> I'm currently in the middle of a similar exercise and spoke with Triodos last week. They look to be a great bank but get minus points for not offering credit facilities of any kind (ie no form of credit card for expenses and no overdraft facility). Not sure if that's useful infor or not for you but thought I'd mention.
>
> FYI - We're with NatWest and they're awful; excessive charges for ? and $ activity, card reader for payment activities etc. A shame really as our account manager is smashing but the bank are sods.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 13:16:51 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:16:51 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJbbm+qB1SBCpQ20pSFd4BgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

I've been with HSBC for erm decades for business and personal. It helps that
the staff at my local branch (Clevedon) are great, but the internet banking
is great as well. There is a credit card sized code generator for logging in
but no card reader. All transactions are instant (obviously subject to stuff
like payments to other banks may take time). 

Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Philip Coombes
Sent: 02 March 2015 10:53
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking

Hi all,

I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me
nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my
goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing
my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the
phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on
hold) or by writing them a letter!

So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which I'm
happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.

Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or imposes
a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being able
to actually pay them...

Cheers

Phil

--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9204 - Release Date: 03/01/15



From digiology at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 13:21:45 2015
From: digiology at gmail.com (Ross Rochford)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:21:45 +0100
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJbbm+qB1SBCpQ20pSFd4BgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJbbm+qB1SBCpQ20pSFd4BgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CADhkOmOkuGMF4sDLwKFd8_ajOjd2TL42TPS94z54OAXh2N=O0A@mail.gmail.com>

Martin, Do you know how much do HSBC charge for non-GBP transactions? I was
on the phone to them recently, told me that I would be charged for euro
earnings but refused to detail to me how the charge was calculated or to
give me a ball park figure, saying that it depended on the exchange rate.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> I've been with HSBC for erm decades for business and personal. It helps
> that
> the staff at my local branch (Clevedon) are great, but the internet banking
> is great as well. There is a credit card sized code generator for logging
> in
> but no card reader. All transactions are instant (obviously subject to
> stuff
> like payments to other banks may take time).
>
> Martin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of
> Philip Coombes
> Sent: 02 March 2015 10:53
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me
> nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my
> goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing
> my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the
> phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on
> hold) or by writing them a letter!
>
> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
> stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which I'm
> happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>
> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or imposes
> a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being able
> to actually pay them...
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9204 - Release Date: 03/01/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 13:22:01 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:22:01 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

> Why is everybody bashing the card reader? Seemed like a good idea to me.

Because one of the benefits internet banking is you can do it anywhere and yet the use of a card reader means you either need to remember to carry it with you always or only do your internet banking from one location. Yes, it is a good security measure but it's just darn inconvenient.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 13:32:37 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:32:37 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CADhkOmOkuGMF4sDLwKFd8_ajOjd2TL42TPS94z54OAXh2N=O0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJbbm+qB1SBCpQ20pSFd4BgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADhkOmOkuGMF4sDLwKFd8_ajOjd2TL42TPS94z54OAXh2N=O0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZNvJnpRO+kiQo8vTzA_U=yzUZU4UTYCAwu65NCwcaRYzQ@mail.gmail.com>

HSBC are absolute gutter fucks...

On 2 March 2015 at 13:21, Ross Rochford <digiology at gmail.com> wrote:

> Martin, Do you know how much do HSBC charge for non-GBP transactions? I was
> on the phone to them recently, told me that I would be charged for euro
> earnings but refused to detail to me how the charge was calculated or to
> give me a ball park figure, saying that it depended on the exchange rate.
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > I've been with HSBC for erm decades for business and personal. It helps
> > that
> > the staff at my local branch (Clevedon) are great, but the internet
> banking
> > is great as well. There is a credit card sized code generator for logging
> > in
> > but no card reader. All transactions are instant (obviously subject to
> > stuff
> > like payments to other banks may take time).
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > Philip Coombes
> > Sent: 02 March 2015 10:53
> > To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging
> me
> > nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
> my
> > goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
> doing
> > my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the
> > phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on
> > hold) or by writing them a letter!
> >
> > So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
> > stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which
> I'm
> > happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
> >
> > Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
> imposes
> > a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being
> able
> > to actually pay them...
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9204 - Release Date: 03/01/15
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 13:51:42 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:51:42 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CADhkOmOkuGMF4sDLwKFd8_ajOjd2TL42TPS94z54OAXh2N=O0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJbbm+qB1SBCpQ20pSFd4BgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADhkOmOkuGMF4sDLwKFd8_ajOjd2TL42TPS94z54OAXh2N=O0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANXmeA29MtFDsaYnlBYyQ94BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Nope - but I only deal in GBP. But this clearly may have a bearing!

Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Ross Rochford
Sent: 02 March 2015 13:22
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

Martin, Do you know how much do HSBC charge for non-GBP transactions? I was
on the phone to them recently, told me that I would be charged for euro
earnings but refused to detail to me how the charge was calculated or to
give me a ball park figure, saying that it depended on the exchange rate.




From rob at hobbyistsoftware.com  Mon Mar  2 14:12:26 2015
From: rob at hobbyistsoftware.com (Rob Jonson)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:12:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
Message-ID: <CACTOy+qXk0KSBuHr9k_B4TuzM3zf7Lu5dq6Q0ic70VrMf5tTWA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm with HSBC.
Internet banking generally works fine

however
1) there is no way to download transactions in csv or similar for more than
the last month or so
2) if you want to send international payments, then they charge you ?6.50
per month  for the privilege of having the capability. This is on top of
the ?18ish per-transaction fee.
3) you have to carry an annoying code generator everywhere if you want
access, so in practice - it is internet-from-home-banking for me

I still don't understand why my business account has to be more expensive
and less good than my personal account.


-- 





Hobbyist Software is a trading name of Hobbyist Software Limited.
Registered office 12 Fraley Rd, Bristol, BS93BS. Registered in England.
Company no:7876492

From fiznool at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 14:16:09 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:16:09 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9Zrt3tx-kYcAcfVECtTcFOOo+1HaVk3JjtxKV1kZWPbQA@mail.gmail.com>

I can recommend Cater Allen. As a smaller institution, they generally
answer the phone within 20 seconds. Their Internet Banking is simple but
effective, and there is no need for a card reader.

Sign up via this link and you'll get free banking for up to 30 transactions
per month. Past that, and I believe the charges are very competitive.

http://www.contractoruk.com/money/free_business_bank_account.html

On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging
> me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
> my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
> doing my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via
> the phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
> writing them a letter!
>
> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
> stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which I'm
> happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>
> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
> imposes a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and
> being able to actually pay them...
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 14:23:38 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:23:38 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACTOy+qXk0KSBuHr9k_B4TuzM3zf7Lu5dq6Q0ic70VrMf5tTWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACTOy+qXk0KSBuHr9k_B4TuzM3zf7Lu5dq6Q0ic70VrMf5tTWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGcYJNWzsL9PgPFc7Bkx0OQBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

I really can't see the issue with carrying a credit card sized code generator! Mine stays at home unless I'm away for a few days and then I may take it - do you REALLY need bank access all the time or would a bit of planning help?

And you can download CSV for any age statement (I just tried it!).

Martin. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Rob Jonson
Sent: 02 March 2015 14:12
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

I'm with HSBC.
Internet banking generally works fine

however
1) there is no way to download transactions in csv or similar for more than the last month or so
2) if you want to send international payments, then they charge you ?6.50 per month  for the privilege of having the capability. This is on top of the ?18ish per-transaction fee.
3) you have to carry an annoying code generator everywhere if you want access, so in practice - it is internet-from-home-banking for me

I still don't understand why my business account has to be more expensive and less good than my personal account.


-- 





Hobbyist Software is a trading name of Hobbyist Software Limited.
Registered office 12 Fraley Rd, Bristol, BS93BS. Registered in England.
Company no:7876492
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9204 - Release Date: 03/01/15



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 14:27:16 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:27:16 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 March 2015 at 13:22, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>> Why is everybody bashing the card reader? Seemed like a good idea to me.
>
> Because one of the benefits internet banking is you can do it anywhere and yet the use of a card reader means you either need to remember to carry it with you always or only do your internet banking from one location. Yes, it is a good security measure but it's just darn inconvenient.

Not a big deal really, they do a credit card sized one for your
wallet, or if you want to log in and check you don't need it (Lloyds).

Its always that thing convenience vs security.

http://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/eba_ezio_thin.pdf

Its tiny. Far less hassle than getting your bank account hacked.

>From what I've heard Lloyds always sound like its not the worst bank
for service or convenience. I can get my transactions as QIF or CSV
going back years. Biggest pain is only in three month batches.

We ought to set up some sort of Underscore comparison site/service,
would be good to know which banks are better if which areas.

Steve


From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 14:35:06 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:35:06 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

> Not a big deal really, they do a credit card sized one for your wallet, or if you want to log in and check you don't need it (Lloyds).

The NatWest one is the size of a small calculator and so doesn't fit in anyone's wallet, it's needed for setting up and paying new payees. I feasibly do business banking from three different locations so if I'm not where the calculator thing is then I can't make the payment.

You're right though, it's not a 'big' deal, just an irritant that ads to an overall picture of dissatisfaction. 

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________


From davehodg at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 14:43:40 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (David Hodgkinson)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:43:40 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <D2581E02-7542-47D1-B91B-549ED954342A@gmail.com>


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 14:35, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Not a big deal really, they do a credit card sized one for your wallet, or if you want to log in and check you don't need it (Lloyds).
> 
> The NatWest one is the size of a small calculator and so doesn't fit in anyone's wallet, it's needed for setting up and paying new payees. I feasibly do business banking from three different locations so if I'm not where the calculator thing is then I can't make the payment.
> 
> You're right though, it's not a 'big' deal, just an irritant that ads to an overall picture of dissatisfaction. 

Barclays have an iPhone app.

And there?s code to transmogrify their statements into FreeAgent.



From matt at quernus.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 14:46:04 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 06:46:04 -0800
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <DED69823-E19D-4658-AF13-1D1AD5D71FC1@quernus.co.uk>


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 05:22, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Why is everybody bashing the card reader? Seemed like a good idea to me.
> 
> Because one of the benefits internet banking is you can do it anywhere and yet the use of a card reader means you either need to remember to carry it with you always or only do your internet banking from one location. Yes, it is a good security measure but it's just darn inconvenient.


I?m with Lloyds too, and they seem to use my iPhone as 2nd factor in the auth once you start using the iPhone app. You need the card reader to set up the app, but once done, then I appear to be able to make payments via my phone without requiring the card reader (unlike on desktop). Not sure about setting up new recipients though.

-Matt

? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From julian at palace.co  Mon Mar  2 14:48:24 2015
From: julian at palace.co (Julian Guy)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 14:48:24 +0000
Subject: [_] YouTube iframe API over http
Message-ID: <B1C12EAE-1C21-4C48-9622-508BC2849C1C@palace.co>

Hello _

I?m having trouble with using the iframe API for Youtube https://developers.google.com/youtube/iframe_api_reference <https://developers.google.com/youtube/iframe_api_reference>.  The API seems require a number of elements be loaded over https which causes many 'Blocked a frame with origin "https://www.youtube.com" from accessing a frame with origin? errors. Has anybody else had this issue or know of a workaround?
	

Kind regards
Julian Guy

--

Julian Guy
Palace - Technical Director

0117 214 0920 | http://palace.co <http://palace.co/>

From phil at web2wire.com  Mon Mar  2 15:00:25 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F47B09.8050708@web2wire.com>

For me it's annoying as much for the way it's used. If I want to make a 
payment I have to use the card reader. If I want to make another payment 
ten seconds later, I have to use it again  and so on, there is no period 
of authorisation validity. Today I wanted to reduce a standing order by 
a few quid, again I had to use the reader, it's not like that is 
protecting them (or me) against some major financial fraud. I can see 
the point if you are making large payments or adding a new recipient 
etc, but there is no intelligence in how it is implemented.

Oddly enough Lloyds personal banking texts you a pin which you have to 
enter as a confirmation or calls you to confirm. These are both much 
more convenient and sensible than having to carry things round with you.

Phil

On 02/03/2015 13:10, 2966710 . wrote:
> Why is everybody bashing the card reader? Seemed like a good idea to me.
>
> Steve
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 12:54, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>>   Triodos Bank (in The Netherlands, they seem to use the same internet banking software in the UK).
>> I'm currently in the middle of a similar exercise and spoke with Triodos last week. They look to be a great bank but get minus points for not offering credit facilities of any kind (ie no form of credit card for expenses and no overdraft facility). Not sure if that's useful infor or not for you but thought I'd mention.
>>
>> FYI - We're with NatWest and they're awful; excessive charges for ? and $ activity, card reader for payment activities etc. A shame really as our account manager is smashing but the bank are sods.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 15:00:35 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:00:35 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzhiO0AjC141tHpdfzvBuoGr-e_RD=ZGaxn37mwpzMm0Jg@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 March 2015 at 14:35, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> The NatWest one is the size of a small calculator and so doesn't fit in anyone's wallet, it's needed for setting up and paying new payees. I feasibly do business banking from three different locations so if I'm not where the calculator thing is then I can't make the payment.

I can order new ones when I log into my business account, they work
with all UK banks. Want me to order you one?

Steve


From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 15:02:36 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:02:36 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <DED69823-E19D-4658-AF13-1D1AD5D71FC1@quernus.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <DED69823-E19D-4658-AF13-1D1AD5D71FC1@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzghw=QCuJ8JOMfiqE2Xpsqp9m3_fTsw7K40GDUv8hFM4Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 March 2015 at 14:46, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:

> I?m with Lloyds too, and they seem to use my iPhone as 2nd factor in the auth once you start using the iPhone app. You need the card reader to set up the app, but once done, then I appear to be able to make payments via my phone without requiring the card reader (unlike on desktop). Not sure about setting up new recipients though.

Hi Matt,

So once you've got it set up on the phone what authorisation does it
need when you open the app?

I mean if someone had my phone, perhaps I lent it to them to make a
call what stops them opening the bank app and being mischievous?
Steve


From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 15:11:24 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:11:24 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F47B09.8050708@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F47B09.8050708@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzh7bV2iL=HReW44n9E6xf+zUPQy-MHhLOqw0gn_3PZUsg@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 March 2015 at 15:00, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> For me it's annoying as much for the way it's used. If I want to make a
> payment I have to use the card reader. If I want to make another payment ten
> seconds later, I have to use it again  and so on, there is no period of
> authorisation validity. Today I wanted to reduce a standing order by a few
> quid, again I had to use the reader, it's not like that is protecting them
> (or me) against some major financial fraud. I can see the point if you are
> making large payments or adding a new recipient etc, but there is no
> intelligence in how it is implemented.

It was a big pain when they introduced it but you can add payments to
a list and authorise them in one hit. That's what I usually do.

I guess having hoops to jump through protects everybody (bank and
business) from accidental changes to payments; changing a direct debit
on a large business could have large repercussions. I guess its about
accountability. Pretty hard to do anything by accident with or without
a card reader.

Hey I sound like a cheer leader for the card reader -- yay, two four
six eight who do we appreciate ...

Now I'd better chip in with a moan.

Why can't my QIF or CSV files have the transactions in chronological
order? I've always read from the top down on bank statements.

Steve


From me at amias.net  Mon Mar  2 15:27:06 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:27:06 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzh7bV2iL=HReW44n9E6xf+zUPQy-MHhLOqw0gn_3PZUsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F47B09.8050708@web2wire.com>
 <CACeWpzh7bV2iL=HReW44n9E6xf+zUPQy-MHhLOqw0gn_3PZUsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XXcbiDdV3RW=wQpaFMiB3v2uYfyqTVYRkhajPwTMQNbrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello _

I can heartily recommend HSBC , they laundered all my drug money and helped
me avoid paying billions in taxes.

They even let me know when the taxman was coming and helped me moved my
assets even further out of his reach.

The government would only have wasted that money on poor people and the
bloody environment anyway.

Cheers
Amias

On 2 March 2015 at 15:11, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2 March 2015 at 15:00, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> > For me it's annoying as much for the way it's used. If I want to make a
> > payment I have to use the card reader. If I want to make another payment
> ten
> > seconds later, I have to use it again  and so on, there is no period of
> > authorisation validity. Today I wanted to reduce a standing order by a
> few
> > quid, again I had to use the reader, it's not like that is protecting
> them
> > (or me) against some major financial fraud. I can see the point if you
> are
> > making large payments or adding a new recipient etc, but there is no
> > intelligence in how it is implemented.
>
> It was a big pain when they introduced it but you can add payments to
> a list and authorise them in one hit. That's what I usually do.
>
> I guess having hoops to jump through protects everybody (bank and
> business) from accidental changes to payments; changing a direct debit
> on a large business could have large repercussions. I guess its about
> accountability. Pretty hard to do anything by accident with or without
> a card reader.
>
> Hey I sound like a cheer leader for the card reader -- yay, two four
> six eight who do we appreciate ...
>
> Now I'd better chip in with a moan.
>
> Why can't my QIF or CSV files have the transactions in chronological
> order? I've always read from the top down on bank statements.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From james at nuvola.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 16:14:58 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:14:58 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
Message-ID: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>

Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a 
Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids 
to put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my 
prospective geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?

Cheers
James



From marc at anyware.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 16:29:10 2015
From: marc at anyware.co.uk (Marc Palmer)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:29:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
In-Reply-To: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
References: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4B12A2B9-1E8A-4D0C-A139-0FC8BE448FEC@anyware.co.uk>


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 16:14, James Geldart <james at nuvola.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids to put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my prospective geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?

Yes, we have found it pretty good. I have two girls age 9 and 11. The initial experience was pretty great and had some sweet/fun elements, although a little confusion about assembly ensued as there?s some odd/arbitrary choices of e.g. plugging the speaker in.

They have put a lot of effort into ?KanoOS? and I think this and the cheap and cheerful wireless keyboard/trackpad combo is where all the value is. My kids were dragged through some basic shell command stuff and enjoyed it, and then progressed to using the scratch-a-like coding environment. Then they got Minecraft working and all the programming projects have dropped off the radar? for now at least. The Minecraft version on there is a bit problematic and poorly documented? but Google. Kids haven?t started on the broader project stuff yet.

The best thing is that the new Raspberry Pi 2 works with KanoOS and the wifi/keyboard USB dongles shipped with Kano according to them. This will bring a very welcome speed increase. The slowness of the Kano has been a frustration.

In short? we really like it. Am buying a Pi 2 to replace the brain - probably won?t fit in the Kano case now - because that will make the experience MUCH better. If Kano start shipping kits with the Pi 2 soon, that would be excellent.

Cheers



From joe.leech at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 16:29:53 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:29:53 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
In-Reply-To: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
References: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc0SWcvP_NkhzejEROFH_DctT0doDuk4wtvrCSqunwfX0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi James,

I backed the Kickstarter and have one of the their lovely orange keyboards.

Yep, it's a Raspberry pi with a bespoke software package aimed at
teaching kids about programming and IoT.

You can download the software for free I believe. Great for kids, you
may not need their distro, Scratch is a good place to start and that's
on the standard Pi image.

joe


On 2 March 2015 at 16:14, James Geldart <james at nuvola.co.uk> wrote:
> Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a
> Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids to
> put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my prospective
> geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From rhodri at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 16:29:43 2015
From: rhodri at gmail.com (Rhodri Karim)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:29:43 +0000
Subject: [_] YouTube iframe API over http
In-Reply-To: <B1C12EAE-1C21-4C48-9622-508BC2849C1C@palace.co>
References: <B1C12EAE-1C21-4C48-9622-508BC2849C1C@palace.co>
Message-ID: <CAF0cwjyPBUKpZ+-d9Aaq4G-XZsp2HRzi6zMBv_pwr2V2ipKMjg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Julian ? it looks like this is actually the intended behaviour! I've
found a couple of sources that point to this unfixed issue:
https://code.google.com/p/gdata-issues/issues/detail?id=2964&can=1&q=youtube%20https&colspec=API%20ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Stars%20Summary

You can reduce the number of content warnings by creating your own <iframe>
element whose URL has a specific protocol rather than using an empty <div>
? have a look halfway down this "Loading a Video Player" section:
https://developers.google.com/youtube/iframe_api_reference#Loading_a_Video_Player

Hope that helps, feel free to get in touch if you need anything.

All the best,
Rhodri

On 2 March 2015 at 14:48, Julian Guy <julian at palace.co> wrote:

> Hello _
>
> I?m having trouble with using the iframe API for Youtube
> https://developers.google.com/youtube/iframe_api_reference <
> https://developers.google.com/youtube/iframe_api_reference>.  The API
> seems require a number of elements be loaded over https which causes many
> 'Blocked a frame with origin "https://www.youtube.com" from accessing a
> frame with origin? errors. Has anybody else had this issue or know of a
> workaround?
>
>
> Kind regards
> Julian Guy
>
> --
>
> Julian Guy
> Palace - Technical Director
>
> 0117 214 0920 | http://palace.co <http://palace.co/>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 16:36:52 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:36:52 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
In-Reply-To: <4B12A2B9-1E8A-4D0C-A139-0FC8BE448FEC@anyware.co.uk>
References: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
 <4B12A2B9-1E8A-4D0C-A139-0FC8BE448FEC@anyware.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzjFimQ1ucS=vnSFfp8xL0SM3dPQi940pUhuC7dyNCW9Fg@mail.gmail.com>

I'd forgotten about this, it was funded by Kickstarter.  Not got one
(yet), but seems to be a nice kit. We bought Maplin Raspberry Pi kit
and are slowly getting smaller nicer parts to make it use up less
space and look tidier. Wish this was released earlier.

The Pi is slow, and that is a frustration so unless it becomes a part
of some interesting project ( https://www.piborg.org/diddyborg ) an
old Laptop with Linux would be just as good for kids to learn coding.

That said I reckon the kids would love it and have a lot of fun.

Steve

On 2 March 2015 at 16:29, Marc Palmer <marc at anyware.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 16:14, James Geldart <james at nuvola.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids to put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my prospective geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?
>
> Yes, we have found it pretty good. I have two girls age 9 and 11. The initial experience was pretty great and had some sweet/fun elements, although a little confusion about assembly ensued as there?s some odd/arbitrary choices of e.g. plugging the speaker in.
>
> They have put a lot of effort into ?KanoOS? and I think this and the cheap and cheerful wireless keyboard/trackpad combo is where all the value is. My kids were dragged through some basic shell command stuff and enjoyed it, and then progressed to using the scratch-a-like coding environment. Then they got Minecraft working and all the programming projects have dropped off the radar? for now at least. The Minecraft version on there is a bit problematic and poorly documented? but Google. Kids haven?t started on the broader project stuff yet.
>
> The best thing is that the new Raspberry Pi 2 works with KanoOS and the wifi/keyboard USB dongles shipped with Kano according to them. This will bring a very welcome speed increase. The slowness of the Kano has been a frustration.
>
> In short? we really like it. Am buying a Pi 2 to replace the brain - probably won?t fit in the Kano case now - because that will make the experience MUCH better. If Kano start shipping kits with the Pi 2 soon, that would be excellent.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 16:41:57 2015
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (Mike Karthauser)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:41:57 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
In-Reply-To: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
References: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
Message-ID: <88FFF4E5-86A8-465E-9C48-E18597ABEAFC@brightstorm.co.uk>

Hi James
My 9yo has been enjoying kano. We?ve just been using the disk image with a model B Raspberry pi which is a great way to give it a whirl if you?ve got existing kit. 


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 16:14, James Geldart <james at nuvola.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids to put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my prospective geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?
> 
> Cheers
> James
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

....................................
Mike Karth?user
Director, Brightstorm Ltd.

1, Brewery Court
North Street
Bristol
BS3 1JS

mikek at brightstorm.co.uk <mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk>
www.brightstorm.co.uk <http://www.brightstorm.co.uk/>
+44(0) 7939252144
....................................


From james at nuvola.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 16:55:11 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 16:55:11 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
In-Reply-To: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
References: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54F495EF.4040208@nuvola.co.uk>

Thanks for the feedback guys, interesting. My kids already have an old 
laptop with Xubuntu on it that they use for Scratch (and more often 
Minecraft of course!). Think I might hang fire on Kano until the Pi 2 
version comes out. Definitely worth keeping an eye on though.

On 02/03/15 16:14, James Geldart wrote:
> Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a 
> Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids 
> to put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my 
> prospective geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>



From fiznool at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 17:06:34 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:06:34 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F47B09.8050708@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F47B09.8050708@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9YmVNa1e0dGQWQPb8V5uPSN7oY=-uZatCxjg9moQHnVNg@mail.gmail.com>

> Lloyds personal banking texts you a pin which you have to enter as a
confirmation or calls you to confirm

Santander do the same. So much better than a card reader. If there's one
thing you've (probably) always got with you, its your phone.

On 2 March 2015 at 15:00, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:

> For me it's annoying as much for the way it's used. If I want to make a
> payment I have to use the card reader. If I want to make another payment
> ten seconds later, I have to use it again  and so on, there is no period of
> authorisation validity. Today I wanted to reduce a standing order by a few
> quid, again I had to use the reader, it's not like that is protecting them
> (or me) against some major financial fraud. I can see the point if you are
> making large payments or adding a new recipient etc, but there is no
> intelligence in how it is implemented.
>
> Oddly enough Lloyds personal banking texts you a pin which you have to
> enter as a confirmation or calls you to confirm. These are both much more
> convenient and sensible than having to carry things round with you.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On 02/03/2015 13:10, 2966710 . wrote:
>
>> Why is everybody bashing the card reader? Seemed like a good idea to me.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 2 March 2015 at 12:54, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>   Triodos Bank (in The Netherlands, they seem to use the same internet
>>>> banking software in the UK).
>>>>
>>> I'm currently in the middle of a similar exercise and spoke with Triodos
>>> last week. They look to be a great bank but get minus points for not
>>> offering credit facilities of any kind (ie no form of credit card for
>>> expenses and no overdraft facility). Not sure if that's useful infor or not
>>> for you but thought I'd mention.
>>>
>>> FYI - We're with NatWest and they're awful; excessive charges for ? and
>>> $ activity, card reader for payment activities etc. A shame really as our
>>> account manager is smashing but the bank are sods.
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From joe at tao.org.uk  Mon Mar  2 17:02:31 2015
From: joe at tao.org.uk (Dr Josef Karthauser)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:02:31 +0000
Subject: [_] Kano
In-Reply-To: <54F495EF.4040208@nuvola.co.uk>
References: <54F48C82.60606@nuvola.co.uk> <54F495EF.4040208@nuvola.co.uk>
Message-ID: <462B8AEF-51F2-4F52-AF15-DC2EAA07E647@tao.org.uk>

The Kano itself seemed too expensive given what it was? so we bought a Pi and case and bits and pieces and installed KanoOs like Mike did. No need to wait until Kano get around to upgrading - make your own :).

Joe

> On 2 Mar 2015, at 16:55, James Geldart <james at nuvola.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the feedback guys, interesting. My kids already have an old laptop with Xubuntu on it that they use for Scratch (and more often Minecraft of course!). Think I might hang fire on Kano until the Pi 2 version comes out. Definitely worth keeping an eye on though.
> 
> On 02/03/15 16:14, James Geldart wrote:
>> Anyone any experience with Kano (http://www.kano.me/)? Seems to be a Raspberry Pi with added bits and instructions to make it easy for kids to put together. Looks an interesting idea - worth getting for my prospective geeks (aged 7 and 8) or not?
>> 
>> Cheers
>> James
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 




From matt at quernus.co.uk  Mon Mar  2 17:22:18 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 09:22:18 -0800
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzghw=QCuJ8JOMfiqE2Xpsqp9m3_fTsw7K40GDUv8hFM4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <DED69823-E19D-4658-AF13-1D1AD5D71FC1@quernus.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzghw=QCuJ8JOMfiqE2Xpsqp9m3_fTsw7K40GDUv8hFM4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6AF7547-A22A-4DE0-ABE0-D06A540C7FB1@quernus.co.uk>


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 07:02, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2 March 2015 at 14:46, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I?m with Lloyds too, and they seem to use my iPhone as 2nd factor in the auth once you start using the iPhone app. You need the card reader to set up the app, but once done, then I appear to be able to make payments via my phone without requiring the card reader (unlike on desktop). Not sure about setting up new recipients though.
> 
> Hi Matt,
> 
> So once you've got it set up on the phone what authorisation does it
> need when you open the app?
> 
> I mean if someone had my phone, perhaps I lent it to them to make a
> call what stops them opening the bank app and being mischievous?

To open the app you need to enter in your x?th, y?th and z'th item from your memorable information. Then to make a payment you need to enter your full password.

-Matt


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From gothick at gothick.org.uk  Mon Mar  2 22:05:59 2015
From: gothick at gothick.org.uk (Matt Gibson)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 22:05:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> 
> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing my accounts. 

Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little overseas payments through that. Mostly I?m buying e-books and software licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.

(It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I?ve only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty small part of my income?)

M



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 23:26:48 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 23:26:48 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>

I just checked:

something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.

Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
similar.

Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?

Steve

On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing my accounts.
>
> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little overseas payments through that. Mostly I?m buying e-books and software licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
>
> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I?ve only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty small part of my income?)
>
> M
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From matt at quernus.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 00:25:56 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:25:56 -0800
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>

I?m currently working in LA at the moment and bank with Lloyds both personally and business and am making payments and withdrawing cash with both accounts?. so will see what the charges look like when I get back!

I just got told that one of my Finnish, but US resident colleagues can?t transfer money from Finland to the US as his US bank account doesn?t even have an IBAN number :(

But they do have electronic payment here? you can enter an amount and a recipient into an iPhone app and the bank will print the cheque off for you and post it to the recipient!

-Matt


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 15:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just checked:
> 
> something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
> 
> Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
> I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
> exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
> similar.
> 
> Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing my accounts.
>> 
>> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little overseas payments through that. Mostly I?m buying e-books and software licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
>> 
>> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I?ve only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty small part of my income?)
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From damian.webber at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 00:52:59 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 00:52:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>

Ooh, don't use your UK cards abroad. I've done that and the charges are crazy. Use a pre-paid dollar card (their charges can also vary, mind you)

It's way cheaper for every-day use abroad. 

D
Sent from my Vertu.

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk>
Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:25:56 
To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

I?m currently working in LA at the moment and bank with Lloyds both personally and business and am making payments and withdrawing cash with both accounts?. so will see what the charges look like when I get back!

I just got told that one of my Finnish, but US resident colleagues can?t transfer money from Finland to the US as his US bank account doesn?t even have an IBAN number :(

But they do have electronic payment here? you can enter an amount and a recipient into an iPhone app and the bank will print the cheque off for you and post it to the recipient!

-Matt


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 15:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just checked:
> 
> something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
> 
> Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
> I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
> exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
> similar.
> 
> Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing my accounts.
>> 
>> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little overseas payments through that. Mostly I?m buying e-books and software licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
>> 
>> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I?ve only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty small part of my income?)
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 07:47:21 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:47:21 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
 <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzjazJmjZojOdQ7-y6S6wv3rSAqXVyEa0BQ+ne1xMBN3sQ@mail.gmail.com>

The personal account will have fee of ?1 per transaction, Not so bad
for withdrawing large amounts of cash or large card payments, I found
it worked better for me than travellers cheques or pre paid cards (for
short trips). But that fee is quite high for small transactions, hence
I used cash a lot.

Whilst looking at business fees last night I found a calculator within
Lloyds business account pages on an "International" tab. Here's an
example of the cost of sending money to a non UK bank. I played with
the amount and did US and France (Euro). In all cases the fee was ?15.
So to send ?10 cost ?15 while sending ?10000 also cost ?15.

Country:UNITED STATES
Sterling amount:1000.00 GBP
Payment currency amount:1491.90 USD  [?]
Exchange rate1 GBP =1.4919USD
Typical fees15.00 GBP [?]
Total Sterling cost:1015.00 GBP

Steve

On 3 March 2015 at 00:52, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ooh, don't use your UK cards abroad. I've done that and the charges are crazy. Use a pre-paid dollar card (their charges can also vary, mind you)
>
> It's way cheaper for every-day use abroad.
>
> D
> Sent from my Vertu.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk>
> Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:25:56
> To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
> Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> I?m currently working in LA at the moment and bank with Lloyds both personally and business and am making payments and withdrawing cash with both accounts?. so will see what the charges look like when I get back!
>
> I just got told that one of my Finnish, but US resident colleagues can?t transfer money from Finland to the US as his US bank account doesn?t even have an IBAN number :(
>
> But they do have electronic payment here? you can enter an amount and a recipient into an iPhone app and the bank will print the cheque off for you and post it to the recipient!
>
> -Matt
>
>
>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 15:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just checked:
>>
>> something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
>>
>> Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
>> I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
>> exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
>> similar.
>>
>> Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing my accounts.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little overseas payments through that. Mostly I?m buying e-books and software licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
>>>
>>> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I?ve only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty small part of my income?)
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
> ?
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 08:21:34 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 08:21:34 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
 <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>

Worth mentioning the Halifax Clarity credit card which uses the Visa
exchange rate and doesn't add any fees.

I don't bother with changing cash, pre-paid cards or anything else now.
Just use the ATM in the airport when I land and carry on with the card like
I would at home.

http://www.halifax.co.uk/creditcards/Landing/clarity-card-all/?so=MSE_Halifax_Table_Clarity


On Tuesday, 3 March 2015, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ooh, don't use your UK cards abroad. I've done that and the charges are
> crazy. Use a pre-paid dollar card (their charges can also vary, mind you)
>
> It's way cheaper for every-day use abroad.
>
> D
> Sent from my Vertu.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk <javascript:;>>
> Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>
> >
> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:25:56
> To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>>
> Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> I'm currently working in LA at the moment and bank with Lloyds both
> personally and business and am making payments and withdrawing cash with
> both accounts.... so will see what the charges look like when I get back!
>
> I just got told that one of my Finnish, but US resident colleagues can't
> transfer money from Finland to the US as his US bank account doesn't even
> have an IBAN number :(
>
> But they do have electronic payment here... you can enter an amount and a
> recipient into an iPhone app and the bank will print the cheque off for you
> and post it to the recipient!
>
> -Matt
>
>
> > On 2 Mar 2015, at 15:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just checked:
> >
> > something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
> >
> > Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
> > I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
> > exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
> > similar.
> >
> > Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking.
> Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few)
> really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to
> add when doing my accounts.
> >>
> >> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for
> something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working
> around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little
> overseas payments through that. Mostly I'm buying e-books and software
> licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
> >>
> >> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I've
> only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty
> small part of my income...)
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
> --
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk <javascript:;>
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered
> number: 09076246
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From phil at web2wire.com  Tue Mar  3 10:03:53 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 10:03:53 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
 <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
 <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F58709.7010309@web2wire.com>

Yes, I have one of these as well and can +1. Very good exchange rates 
and no fees for cash. In fact, to return to the start of this thread, 
that is what I do most of my USD and EUR spending on now, it's just a 
drag having to expense it all rather than doing it direct from the 
Lloyds account.

Phil

On 03/03/2015 08:21, James Bewley wrote:
> Worth mentioning the Halifax Clarity credit card which uses the Visa
> exchange rate and doesn't add any fees.
>
> I don't bother with changing cash, pre-paid cards or anything else now.
> Just use the ATM in the airport when I land and carry on with the card like
> I would at home.
>
> http://www.halifax.co.uk/creditcards/Landing/clarity-card-all/?so=MSE_Halifax_Table_Clarity
>
>
> On Tuesday, 3 March 2015, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ooh, don't use your UK cards abroad. I've done that and the charges are
>> crazy. Use a pre-paid dollar card (their charges can also vary, mind you)
>>
>> It's way cheaper for every-day use abroad.
>>
>> D
>> Sent from my Vertu.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk <javascript:;>>
>> Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>
>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:25:56
>> To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>>
>> Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>
>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>>
>> I'm currently working in LA at the moment and bank with Lloyds both
>> personally and business and am making payments and withdrawing cash with
>> both accounts.... so will see what the charges look like when I get back!
>>
>> I just got told that one of my Finnish, but US resident colleagues can't
>> transfer money from Finland to the US as his US bank account doesn't even
>> have an IBAN number :(
>>
>> But they do have electronic payment here... you can enter an amount and a
>> recipient into an iPhone app and the bank will print the cheque off for you
>> and post it to the recipient!
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>>
>>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 15:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>>> I just checked:
>>>
>>> something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
>>>
>>> Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
>>> I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
>>> exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
>>> similar.
>>>
>>> Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking.
>> Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few)
>> really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to
>> add when doing my accounts.
>>>> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for
>> something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working
>> around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little
>> overseas payments through that. Mostly I'm buying e-books and software
>> licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
>>>> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I've
>> only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty
>> small part of my income...)
>>>> M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Hamilton
>> Quernus
>> matt at quernus.co.uk <javascript:;>
>> +44 117 325 3025
>> 49b Easton Business Centre
>> Felix Road, Easton
>> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>>
>> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered
>> number: 09076246
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 11:34:40 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:34:40 +0000
Subject: [_] Bath Ruby Conference - 13th March
Message-ID: <fa849879e1dd4b15a76b766aa044c236@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

Morning All

As one of the sponsors of this fine event we have a free ticket available which I'd be happy to donate to one of you. In return it would be smashing if whoever wants it was prepared to make a donation to my marathon fund raising for 2015 (The Samaritans again).

Let me know if you'd like the ticket, first come first served etc.

Cheers

Stewart


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From dantagg at wildmanherring.com  Tue Mar  3 13:57:10 2015
From: dantagg at wildmanherring.com (Dan Tagg)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 13:57:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F58709.7010309@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
 <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
 <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F58709.7010309@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZHCY6temgVJR3MHw-mpXCQ8YLxdn=kqFLwMt=KD=N7i-Zb3Q@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-travel-money

On 3 March 2015 at 10:03, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:

> Yes, I have one of these as well and can +1. Very good exchange rates and
> no fees for cash. In fact, to return to the start of this thread, that is
> what I do most of my USD and EUR spending on now, it's just a drag having
> to expense it all rather than doing it direct from the Lloyds account.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On 03/03/2015 08:21, James Bewley wrote:
>
>> Worth mentioning the Halifax Clarity credit card which uses the Visa
>> exchange rate and doesn't add any fees.
>>
>> I don't bother with changing cash, pre-paid cards or anything else now.
>> Just use the ATM in the airport when I land and carry on with the card
>> like
>> I would at home.
>>
>> http://www.halifax.co.uk/creditcards/Landing/clarity-
>> card-all/?so=MSE_Halifax_Table_Clarity
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 3 March 2015, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Ooh, don't use your UK cards abroad. I've done that and the charges are
>>> crazy. Use a pre-paid dollar card (their charges can also vary, mind you)
>>>
>>> It's way cheaper for every-day use abroad.
>>>
>>> D
>>> Sent from my Vertu.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk <javascript:;>>
>>> Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk
>>> <javascript:;>
>>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 16:25:56
>>> To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>>
>>> Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk <javascript:;>
>>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>>>
>>> I'm currently working in LA at the moment and bank with Lloyds both
>>> personally and business and am making payments and withdrawing cash with
>>> both accounts.... so will see what the charges look like when I get back!
>>>
>>> I just got told that one of my Finnish, but US resident colleagues can't
>>> transfer money from Finland to the US as his US bank account doesn't even
>>> have an IBAN number :(
>>>
>>> But they do have electronic payment here... you can enter an amount and a
>>> recipient into an iPhone app and the bank will print the cheque off for
>>> you
>>> and post it to the recipient!
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 2 Mar 2015, at 15:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just checked:
>>>>
>>>> something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
>>>>
>>>> Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
>>>> I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
>>>> exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
>>>> similar.
>>>>
>>>> Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 2 March 2015 at 22:05, Matt Gibson <gothick at gothick.org.uk
>>>>
>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2 Mar 2015, at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Charging me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few)
>>> really gets my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need
>>> to
>>> add when doing my accounts.
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I was quite stunned the first (and only) time I paid for
>>>>>
>>>> something in dollars on my Lloyds business account. I ended up working
>>> around it by setting up a business PayPal account, and I do all my little
>>> overseas payments through that. Mostly I'm buying e-books and software
>>> licenses, mind, which PayPal seems to suit quite well.
>>>
>>>> (It also means that people can pay you through PayPal, too, though I've
>>>>>
>>>> only put a toe in the water with Getty Images so far, which is a pretty
>>> small part of my income...)
>>>
>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>>
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Hamilton
>>> Quernus
>>> matt at quernus.co.uk <javascript:;>
>>> +44 117 325 3025
>>> 49b Easton Business Centre
>>> Felix Road, Easton
>>> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>>>
>>> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered
>>> number: 09076246
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374

From simon.newing at thisisfocus.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 16:00:32 2015
From: simon.newing at thisisfocus.co.uk (Simon Newing)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 16:00:32 +0000
Subject: [_] html / css work
Message-ID: <AE3BC28B-5852-44FA-A8FB-5EB14B1DD986@thisisfocus.co.uk>


Hi all, we could do with some short term HTML / CSS / Bootstrap assistance for a number of projects. Maybe about a month / 6 weeks worth of work, starting asap.

Any interest, please email me off list.

Strictly no agencies please

Thanks very much,
Simon

-------

Simon Newing
MD


focus, 5th Floor, One Temple Quay, Temple Back East, Bristol BS1 6DZ

e: simon.newing at thisisfocus.co.uk
w: www.thisisfocus.co.uk
p: 0117 9498008
t: @focus_tweets

focus. is a division of This is Focus Ltd. Registered in England at 18a Heath Road, Nailsea, Bristol BS48 1AD no 07522150.

From joe.leech at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 17:32:07 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:32:07 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>

As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
what I read here, all banks are dreadful!

I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?

On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging me
> nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets my
> goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when doing
> my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the
> phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by writing
> them a letter!
>
> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
> stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which I'm
> happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>
> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or imposes
> a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being able
> to actually pay them...
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From davehodg at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 17:34:05 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (David Hodgkinson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:34:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61F31471-5005-4CC0-B983-60517F0D15CF@gmail.com>

Barclays business have an API that updates FreeAgent each day?


> On 3 Mar 2015, at 17:32, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
> 
> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?



From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 17:36:15 2015
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (Mike Karthauser)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:36:15 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <61F31471-5005-4CC0-B983-60517F0D15CF@gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <61F31471-5005-4CC0-B983-60517F0D15CF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8EEEA911-7C8E-475C-B174-29B240B13497@brightstorm.co.uk>

As does HSBC. 

> On 3 Mar 2015, at 17:34, David Hodgkinson <davehodg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Barclays business have an API that updates FreeAgent each day?
> 
> 
>> On 3 Mar 2015, at 17:32, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
>> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>> 
>> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
>> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
>> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

....................................
Mike Karth?user
Director, Brightstorm Ltd.

1, Brewery Court
North Street
Bristol
BS3 1JS

mikek at brightstorm.co.uk <mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk>
www.brightstorm.co.uk <http://www.brightstorm.co.uk/>
+44(0) 7939252144
....................................


From joe.leech at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 17:41:48 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:41:48 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <8EEEA911-7C8E-475C-B174-29B240B13497@brightstorm.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <61F31471-5005-4CC0-B983-60517F0D15CF@gmail.com>
 <8EEEA911-7C8E-475C-B174-29B240B13497@brightstorm.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc3vYHSGHjz8d5a80TAbg2E_GMpH0rfYktTca6XNL=ceiw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, but do they suck in other ways? HSBC sounds awful. What are
Barclays like Dave?

On 3 March 2015 at 17:36, Mike Karthauser <mikek at brightstorm.co.uk> wrote:
> As does HSBC.
>
>> On 3 Mar 2015, at 17:34, David Hodgkinson <davehodg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Barclays business have an API that updates FreeAgent each day?
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2015, at 17:32, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
>>> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>>>
>>> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
>>> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
>>> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> ....................................
> Mike Karth?user
> Director, Brightstorm Ltd.
>
> 1, Brewery Court
> North Street
> Bristol
> BS3 1JS
>
> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk <mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk>
> www.brightstorm.co.uk <http://www.brightstorm.co.uk/>
> +44(0) 7939252144
> ....................................
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Tue Mar  3 17:47:44 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:47:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>

Cater Allen works well for me. I don't know if it's Freeagent friendly but
I can export and upload my statements into freeagent. Also they have
foreign currency accounts and a real human answers the phone almost
immediately.
On 3 Mar 2015 17:33, "Joe Leech" <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:

> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>
> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>
> On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging
> me
> > nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
> my
> > goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
> doing
> > my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the
> > phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
> writing
> > them a letter!
> >
> > So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
> > stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which
> I'm
> > happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
> >
> > Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
> imposes
> > a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being
> able
> > to actually pay them...
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************************************
> @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
>
> Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From fiznool at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 17:50:10 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 17:50:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9ZU2HhCF5BH-WZR=PzMD-pFy8NtmPNQrRkmtWsGS3-6gQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have had good experiences with Cater Allen. I use Xero and it has an
automatic feed sync thingy via Yodlee.

It looks like Freeagent support Yodlee feeds too:
http://www.freeagent.com/support/kb/banking/yodlee-faqs-security

On 3 March 2015 at 17:47, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Cater Allen works well for me. I don't know if it's Freeagent friendly but
> I can export and upload my statements into freeagent. Also they have
> foreign currency accounts and a real human answers the phone almost
> immediately.
> On 3 Mar 2015 17:33, "Joe Leech" <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
> > what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
> >
> > I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
> > hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
> > do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
> >
> > On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking.
> Charging
> > me
> > > nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
> > my
> > > goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
> > doing
> > > my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via
> the
> > > phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
> > writing
> > > them a letter!
> > >
> > > So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that
> isn't
> > > stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which
> > I'm
> > > happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
> > >
> > > Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
> > imposes
> > > a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being
> > able
> > > to actually pay them...
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *****************************************************
> > @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
> >
> > Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From gothick at gothick.org.uk  Tue Mar  3 19:37:00 2015
From: gothick at gothick.org.uk (Matt Gibson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 19:37:00 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <547252DD-09B2-4B95-9C68-1C841D2D294B@gothick.org.uk>


> On 2 Mar 2015, at 23:26, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just checked:
> 
> something in US which cost me ?2.99 they charged 2.75% - 8 pence.
> 
> Another ?34.36 again charged 2.75% - 94 pence.
> I wonder what the equivalent overall cost would be with PayPal? the
> exchange rate might be less competitive so your over all cost is
> similar.

I think things may have changed, then, if we?re talking about Lloyds?I was charged a ?5.00 minimum flat fee, thus roughly doubling the amount I paid for the e-book I was buying, from what I remember. That?s why I never used them again.

> Are they charging 5% on money coming into your account?

At the moment, they don?t *seem* to be charging me anything?I think that may be because the only money I?ve received so far is from Getty, who helpfully pay in sterling, so it doesn?t involve a currency conversion. These seem to be the relevant rules: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

M



From thpushman at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 19:56:57 2015
From: thpushman at gmail.com (Tim Pushman)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 19:56:57 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <61F31471-5005-4CC0-B983-60517F0D15CF@gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <61F31471-5005-4CC0-B983-60517F0D15CF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHmnKdmbVgzam1b9kiX6Q8a789pbS=3auv7GxvZShJ-zHPX2NQ@mail.gmail.com>

FreeAgent also interfaces to NatWest, but my understanding is that using
that interface will invalidate their (NatWest) Terms and Conditions and if
anything at all goes amiss with your account it's your problem not theirs.

I assume that HSBC et al have similar 'get out' clauses in their TnC's.

On 3 March 2015 at 17:34, David Hodgkinson <davehodg at gmail.com> wrote:

> Barclays business have an API that updates FreeAgent each day?
>
>
> > On 3 Mar 2015, at 17:32, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
> > what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
> >
> > I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
> > hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
> > do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From phil at web2wire.com  Tue Mar  3 22:04:38 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:04:38 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>

I can see Cater Allen allow EUR and USD accounts as well as GBP, do you 
know if you can you have all of them at the same time or do you just 
have to pick one? Having all three would (presumably) eliminate 
conversion fees if you could pay in the native currency and would help 
when being paid from abroad (I always end up trying to guess how much 
clients have paid in EUR if it goes into my bank in GBP as they never 
seem to tell me what they paid).

Phil

On 03/03/2015 17:47, Adam Retter wrote:
> Cater Allen works well for me. I don't know if it's Freeagent friendly but
> I can export and upload my statements into freeagent. Also they have
> foreign currency accounts and a real human answers the phone almost
> immediately.
> On 3 Mar 2015 17:33, "Joe Leech" <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
>> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>>
>> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
>> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
>> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>>
>> On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging
>> me
>>> nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
>> my
>>> goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
>> doing
>>> my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via the
>>> phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
>> writing
>>> them a letter!
>>>
>>> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
>>> stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which
>> I'm
>>> happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>>>
>>> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
>> imposes
>>> a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being
>> able
>>> to actually pay them...
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>>
>> --
>> *****************************************************
>> @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
>>
>> Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 22:26:02 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 22:26:02 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9ZU2HhCF5BH-WZR=PzMD-pFy8NtmPNQrRkmtWsGS3-6gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9ZU2HhCF5BH-WZR=PzMD-pFy8NtmPNQrRkmtWsGS3-6gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzj6S=j8qu3yHetz=xQsMQcMMuLsUBsNG1h60zYb5Tc45g@mail.gmail.com>

<quote>
How does Yodlee use my login details?

Yodlee uses your securely stored login details for one and only one
purpose: to retrieve transactions from your banking site, and nothing
else.

Does using Yodlee violate my Bank's Terms and Conditions?

This is an important issue, as some people feel that using Yodlee is
in violation of the Terms and Conditions of some banks.
</quote>

So you give them your username and password. To your business bank
account. I looked at this before and decided no way was I going to do
that.

Steve

On 3 March 2015 at 17:50, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have had good experiences with Cater Allen. I use Xero and it has an
> automatic feed sync thingy via Yodlee.
>
> It looks like Freeagent support Yodlee feeds too:
> http://www.freeagent.com/support/kb/banking/yodlee-faqs-security
>
> On 3 March 2015 at 17:47, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cater Allen works well for me. I don't know if it's Freeagent friendly but
>> I can export and upload my statements into freeagent. Also they have
>> foreign currency accounts and a real human answers the phone almost
>> immediately.
>> On 3 Mar 2015 17:33, "Joe Leech" <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
>> > what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>> >
>> > I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
>> > hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
>> > do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>> >
>> > On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking.
>> Charging
>> > me
>> > > nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
>> > my
>> > > goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
>> > doing
>> > > my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via
>> the
>> > > phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
>> > writing
>> > > them a letter!
>> > >
>> > > So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that
>> isn't
>> > > stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which
>> > I'm
>> > > happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>> > >
>> > > Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
>> > imposes
>> > > a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being
>> > able
>> > > to actually pay them...
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > >
>> > > Phil
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> > > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > *****************************************************
>> > @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
>> >
>> > Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time
>> >
>> > --
>> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> >
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Tue Mar  3 23:05:05 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 23:05:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 Mar 2015 22:05, "Philip Coombes" <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>
> I can see Cater Allen allow EUR and USD accounts as well as GBP, do you
know if you can you have all of them at the same time or do you just have
to pick one?

You can have all three. That's what I have :-)

> Having all three would (presumably) eliminate conversion fees if you
could pay in the native currency and would help when being paid from abroad
(I always end up trying to guess how much clients have paid in EUR if it
goes into my bank in GBP as they never seem to tell me what they paid).
>

Yeah as long as you keep them native, then no fees.

> Phil
>
>
> On 03/03/2015 17:47, Adam Retter wrote:
>>
>> Cater Allen works well for me. I don't know if it's Freeagent friendly
but
>> I can export and upload my statements into freeagent. Also they have
>> foreign currency accounts and a real human answers the phone almost
>> immediately.
>> On 3 Mar 2015 17:33, "Joe Leech" <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
>>> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>>>
>>> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
>>> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
>>> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>>>
>>> On 2 March 2015 at 10:52, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking.
Charging
>>>
>>> me
>>>>
>>>> nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
>>>
>>> my
>>>>
>>>> goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
>>>
>>> doing
>>>>
>>>> my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via
the
>>>> phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
>>>
>>> writing
>>>>
>>>> them a letter!
>>>>
>>>> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that
isn't
>>>> stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which
>>>
>>> I'm
>>>>
>>>> happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>>>>
>>>> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
>>>
>>> imposes
>>>>
>>>> a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and being
>>>
>>> able
>>>>
>>>> to actually pay them...
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *****************************************************
>>> @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
>>>
>>> Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a
time
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From dajdavies at gmail.com  Tue Mar  3 23:14:14 2015
From: dajdavies at gmail.com (Andy Davies)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 23:14:14 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABbusAJ=NXqXWLAE2haGa6f0Yhjd+eP+K_oYnd3NJS8gPjo3Kw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 March 2015 at 17:32, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:

> As part of my new freelance planning I need a bank account and from
> what I read here, all banks are dreadful!
>
> I need Freeagent-friendly, international-non-rip-off bank that get the
> hell out of the way when I don't need them and are on the phone when I
> do. Any recommendations? What about Santander?
>
>
I had no problem with HSBC while I was freelance.

Worked OK with FreeAgent but I downloaded the statements in QIF format and
uploaded to FreeAgent - there's integration but I didn't use it

From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Tue Mar  3 23:38:34 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 23:38:34 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>


Having all three would (presumably) eliminate conversion fees if you
could pay in the native currency and would help when being paid from abroad
(I always end up trying to guess how much clients have paid in EUR if it
goes into my bank in GBP as they never seem to tell me what they paid).


Yeah as long as you keep them native, then no fees.

Yes and No. You avoid conversion fees but (and this is what REALLY melts my brain) you have to pay a fee for receiving funds or making payments, even in the same currency. We have $ and ? accounts with NatWest and when we receive a ? payment into our ? account we still pay a fee of around ?8. Same goes for outbound payments too. The same is true of all the banks I?ve spoken to but the fee seems to vary between ?5-8 per transaction.



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  3 23:42:41 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 23:42:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
References: <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
Message-ID: <479915192.3372342.1425426161091.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

some banks have an "our costs" option - sender pays slightlymore, then bank can't charge on incoming payment?All the best

Adam 

     On Tuesday, 3 March 2015, 23:39, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
   

 
Having all three would (presumably) eliminate conversion fees if you
could pay in the native currency and would help when being paid from abroad
(I always end up trying to guess how much clients have paid in EUR if it
goes into my bank in GBP as they never seem to tell me what they paid).


Yeah as long as you keep them native, then no fees.

Yes and No. You avoid conversion fees but (and this is what REALLY melts my brain) you have to pay a fee for receiving funds or making payments, even in the same currency. We have $ and ? accounts with NatWest and when we receive a ? payment into our ? account we still pay a fee of around ?8. Same goes for outbound payments too. The same is true of all the banks I?ve spoken to but the fee seems to vary between ?5-8 per transaction.



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

   

From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Wed Mar  4 00:54:38 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 09:54:38 +0900
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>


> On 4 mrt. 2015, at 08:38, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> when we receive a ? payment into our ? account we still pay a fee of around ?8. Same goes for outbound payments too. The same is true of all the banks I?ve spoken to but the fee seems to vary between ?5-8 per transaction.

Same at HSBC. With the introduction of SEPA these charges should have disappeared (as they have in most euro countries):

> In Regulation (EC) 924/2009, the European Parliament mandated that charges in respect of cross-border payments in euro (of up to EUR 50,000) to other Member States shall be the same as the charges for corresponding national payments.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

From nigel.legg at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 07:49:14 2015
From: nigel.legg at gmail.com (Nigel Legg)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 07:49:14 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
Message-ID: <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>

>> Same at HSBC. With the introduction of SEPA these charges should have
disappeared (as they have in most euro countries):

Is UK in SEPA? I thought that was only for Eurozone countries.

From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Wed Mar  4 09:40:43 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 18:40:43 +0900
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>

On 4 mrt. 2015, at 16:49, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Same at HSBC. With the introduction of SEPA these charges should have
> disappeared (as they have in most euro countries):
> 
> Is UK in SEPA? I thought that was only for Eurozone countries.

Yep. But obviously less Brits have EUR accounts so I would suppose it doesn't add as much value here


> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From jayacg at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 10:54:35 2015
From: jayacg at gmail.com (Jaya Chakrabarti)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 10:54:35 +0000
Subject: [_] calling all freelance UXers
Message-ID: <CACUC+JDaaR2D7WO7R=6PyR7URv3cVzYAcAo2zVTK6Anzj3yf=w@mail.gmail.com>

You may or may not know we've got a hireable UX lab suite here at Nameless
HQ (Bristolsitelab.co.uk if you're interested). However we're looking to
expand our UX testers/consultants list for projects that come in, as many
clients prefer to pick.

We have a few trusted folk on our list already but as usual it's all about
short notice and availability, and of course day rates. If you could drop
me a line off-list if you'd like to be an associate (and aren't already!)
we could pull in as and when, that'd be lovely. We'd like to know how you
work, an anonymised example report typical of the quality you'd produce,
your day rates and any additional skills we can offer.

churs,

Jaya

From jayacg at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 13:49:46 2015
From: jayacg at gmail.com (Jaya Chakrabarti)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 13:49:46 +0000
Subject: [_] Dumbledory voice-over artist required!
Message-ID: <CACUC+JD22bThQsLrNJhtL_h4L62tsX0eXALOKJDHGo6URCF_rA@mail.gmail.com>

Long story short, we need a voice that can sound like a Dumbledorish wizard
for a game we're doing for a client. Does anyone know of a suitable
voice-over artist we can approach please? Literally a few minutes of
voiceover for game instructions required. Must be local to Bristol.

I'm like buses me. For years, nothing and then three requests at once. I
hope, oh hallowed Underscore, you will be able to aid me in my quests!

Muggle-ishly,

Jaya

From paddy at wincstudio.co.uk  Wed Mar  4 13:58:15 2015
From: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk (Paddy Winsley)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 13:58:15 +0000
Subject: [_] Dumbledory voice-over artist required!
In-Reply-To: <CACUC+JD22bThQsLrNJhtL_h4L62tsX0eXALOKJDHGo6URCF_rA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUC+JD22bThQsLrNJhtL_h4L62tsX0eXALOKJDHGo6URCF_rA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15F6C759-CC60-4678-9429-0AC8EFB52EC9@wincstudio.co.uk>

I know of someone but not based in Bristol, pretty sure he has all the gear and can do it remotely if possible?

?
Thanks and regards
Paddy Winsley
Creative Director
?????????????????????????
www.wincstudio.co.uk
t: 01179 733 567
e: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk
m: 07736 050 944
?
Winc Studio
GDN, 1 Westbury Park, 
Bristol, BS6 7JB
?????????????????????????





IMPORTANT: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain private and confidential information or material which may be privileged. If this message has come to you in error you must delete it immediately and should not copy it or show it to any other person.

> On 4 Mar 2015, at 13:49, Jaya Chakrabarti <jayacg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Long story short, we need a voice that can sound like a Dumbledorish wizard
> for a game we're doing for a client. Does anyone know of a suitable
> voice-over artist we can approach please? Literally a few minutes of
> voiceover for game instructions required. Must be local to Bristol.
> 
> I'm like buses me. For years, nothing and then three requests at once. I
> hope, oh hallowed Underscore, you will be able to aid me in my quests!
> 
> Muggle-ishly,
> 
> Jaya
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From jayacg at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 14:04:44 2015
From: jayacg at gmail.com (Jaya Chakrabarti)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 14:04:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Dumbledory voice-over artist required!
In-Reply-To: <15F6C759-CC60-4678-9429-0AC8EFB52EC9@wincstudio.co.uk>
References: <CACUC+JD22bThQsLrNJhtL_h4L62tsX0eXALOKJDHGo6URCF_rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <15F6C759-CC60-4678-9429-0AC8EFB52EC9@wincstudio.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CACUC+JDqQQ_zKzaDbhdd+2wJgFRf2dShHdrNPEmqpWzZKjNj8w@mail.gmail.com>

That would be perfect Paddy, thanks! It would have been a bit much to
expect him to apparate :-). Could you send me his details please?

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Paddy Winsley <paddy at wincstudio.co.uk>
wrote:

> I know of someone but not based in Bristol, pretty sure he has all the
> gear and can do it remotely if possible?
>
> ?
> Thanks and regards
> Paddy Winsley
> Creative Director
> ?????????????????????????
> www.wincstudio.co.uk
> t: 01179 733 567
> e: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk
> m: 07736 050 944
> ?
> Winc Studio
> GDN, 1 Westbury Park,
> Bristol, BS6 7JB
> ?????????????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
> IMPORTANT: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain
> private and confidential information or material which may be privileged.
> If this message has come to you in error you must delete it immediately and
> should not copy it or show it to any other person.
>
> > On 4 Mar 2015, at 13:49, Jaya Chakrabarti <jayacg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Long story short, we need a voice that can sound like a Dumbledorish
> wizard
> > for a game we're doing for a client. Does anyone know of a suitable
> > voice-over artist we can approach please? Literally a few minutes of
> > voiceover for game instructions required. Must be local to Bristol.
> >
> > I'm like buses me. For years, nothing and then three requests at once. I
> > hope, oh hallowed Underscore, you will be able to aid me in my quests!
> >
> > Muggle-ishly,
> >
> > Jaya
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From joe.leech at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 14:36:10 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 14:36:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>

Cater Allen look great. A private bank no-less. Now all I need is the
private member's club and I'm all set.

joe


-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From paddy at wincstudio.co.uk  Wed Mar  4 15:14:43 2015
From: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk (Paddy Winsley)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 15:14:43 +0000
Subject: [_] Dumbledory voice-over artist required!
In-Reply-To: <CACUC+JDqQQ_zKzaDbhdd+2wJgFRf2dShHdrNPEmqpWzZKjNj8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUC+JD22bThQsLrNJhtL_h4L62tsX0eXALOKJDHGo6URCF_rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <15F6C759-CC60-4678-9429-0AC8EFB52EC9@wincstudio.co.uk>
 <CACUC+JDqQQ_zKzaDbhdd+2wJgFRf2dShHdrNPEmqpWzZKjNj8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB129B6-97E5-41F2-934A-61D98007A054@wincstudio.co.uk>

I have just forwarded this email to see if he is available :)

?
Thanks and regards
Paddy Winsley
Creative Director
?????????????????????????
www.wincstudio.co.uk
t: 01179 733 567
e: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk
m: 07736 050 944
?
Winc Studio
GDN, 1 Westbury Park, 
Bristol, BS6 7JB
?????????????????????????





IMPORTANT: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain private and confidential information or material which may be privileged. If this message has come to you in error you must delete it immediately and should not copy it or show it to any other person.

> On 4 Mar 2015, at 14:04, Jaya Chakrabarti <jayacg at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That would be perfect Paddy, thanks! It would have been a bit much to
> expect him to apparate :-). Could you send me his details please?
> 
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Paddy Winsley <paddy at wincstudio.co.uk>
> wrote:
> 
>> I know of someone but not based in Bristol, pretty sure he has all the
>> gear and can do it remotely if possible?
>> 
>> ?
>> Thanks and regards
>> Paddy Winsley
>> Creative Director
>> ?????????????????????????
>> www.wincstudio.co.uk
>> t: 01179 733 567
>> e: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk
>> m: 07736 050 944
>> ?
>> Winc Studio
>> GDN, 1 Westbury Park,
>> Bristol, BS6 7JB
>> ?????????????????????????
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> IMPORTANT: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain
>> private and confidential information or material which may be privileged.
>> If this message has come to you in error you must delete it immediately and
>> should not copy it or show it to any other person.
>> 
>>> On 4 Mar 2015, at 13:49, Jaya Chakrabarti <jayacg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Long story short, we need a voice that can sound like a Dumbledorish
>> wizard
>>> for a game we're doing for a client. Does anyone know of a suitable
>>> voice-over artist we can approach please? Literally a few minutes of
>>> voiceover for game instructions required. Must be local to Bristol.
>>> 
>>> I'm like buses me. For years, nothing and then three requests at once. I
>>> hope, oh hallowed Underscore, you will be able to aid me in my quests!
>>> 
>>> Muggle-ishly,
>>> 
>>> Jaya
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Wed Mar  4 22:11:44 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 22:11:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGcYJNWzsL9PgPFc7Bkx0OQBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <CACTOy+qXk0KSBuHr9k_B4TuzM3zf7Lu5dq6Q0ic70VrMf5tTWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGcYJNWzsL9PgPFc7Bkx0OQBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54F78320.6020108@phonecoop.coop>

Martin Moore wrote:
> I really can't see the issue with carrying a credit card sized code generator! Mine stays at home unless I'm away for a few days and then I may take it - do you REALLY need bank access all the time or would a bit of planning help?

Well no, we don't absolutely need Martini access.  We used to cope OK
when we had to go to these buildings in the High Street to control our
bank accounts through people that misunderstood a random amount of our
instructions... if stuff went wrong, or we failed to order and time
transactions correctly, then we'd take the hit of penalty charges from
either bank or supplier...

But those days (and often those buildings!) have gone now. We've had a
taste of being able to control our accounts whenever we need them and we
liked it.  Maybe things are so hard for banks now though that they want
to make the accounts harder to use and force us back to the old ways of
trying to predict what transactions we need and they can charge us some
penalties again!

Regards
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/


From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Wed Mar  4 22:02:58 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 22:02:58 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzhiO0AjC141tHpdfzvBuoGr-e_RD=ZGaxn37mwpzMm0Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzhiO0AjC141tHpdfzvBuoGr-e_RD=ZGaxn37mwpzMm0Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F78112.5000709@phonecoop.coop>

2966710 . wrote:
> On 2 March 2015 at 14:35, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>> The NatWest one is the size of a small calculator and so doesn't fit in anyone's wallet, it's needed for setting up and paying new payees. I feasibly do business banking from three different locations so if I'm not where the calculator thing is then I can't make the payment.
> 
> I can order new ones when I log into my business account, they work
> with all UK banks. Want me to order you one?

I thought that, but I've discovered that the Co-operative Bank and
Nationwide ones don't seem to be compatible.

My web browsers can handle client-side certificates. Can any UK banks?
Then I could authorise which browsers I use rather than carry a
caclulator-like device around to validate my computer.

Regards,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/


From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Thu Mar  5 09:39:21 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 09:39:21 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F78112.5000709@phonecoop.coop>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <767A1D08-8A6E-4375-A1B3-4CC85A1D24E9@hiddedevries.nl>
 <88293400e9f44c559edafb00aec8c061@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzignkWQ8vu8Nq3j3FFfwGaE=Ez0NbjhvwPrv9ofkKFzkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ed5912ed5a2401880ea5b112bee456a@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzgFKGx+fFXY61J22NwvCsY4GCpt8Aip_t5u1CAFRQV4vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <fbf0406c51ee492bb6ddd8e711ebf6f8@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzhiO0AjC141tHpdfzvBuoGr-e_RD=ZGaxn37mwpzMm0Jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F78112.5000709@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <A220AACE-77F1-4759-B52B-71DCCF9F92DF@craigfrancis.co.uk>

On 4 Mar 2015, at 22:02, MJ Ray <mjr at phonecoop.coop> wrote:

> My web browsers can handle client-side certificates. Can any UK banks?
> Then I could authorise which browsers I use rather than carry a
> caclulator-like device around to validate my computer.


I've always wondered how "secure" client-side certificates are... considering that malware may be running on that computer.

Says he frequently seeing browser extensions that have been installed without the owners knowledge (usually only doing things like injecting banners on to every page).

But then again, if the computer has been compromised...



From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Thu Mar  5 17:18:10 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 17:18:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Wordpress job available
Message-ID: <CA+=VEhk+0XcdtRwquONmBTH5g1mpbOLFcYYUgkyWhe7J7Ssp1w@mail.gmail.com>

afternoon all,

I've got a Wordpress referral that needs a dedicated WP developer.

Essentially it's a local business who have a partially completed project
based upon WP4.1.1 and using RT-Theme 18 theme (
http://themeforest.net/item/rttheme-18-responsive-wordpress-theme/7200532).

AFAICT the bulk of the build is complete i.e. content and structure but
there is a need for work on the finer details. The site was originally
developed by one of the guys that run the company but he now has no spare
time to finish it off.

There's more info available, contact me off-list if you're interested and
I'll put you in touch.

cheers,

mark

-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From lists at pieman.net  Fri Mar  6 08:01:11 2015
From: lists at pieman.net (Stu Charlton)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 00:01:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [_] Senior front-end role at cxpartners
Message-ID: <1425628870965.07883966@Nodemailer>

Hello [_]


We?re looking for a senior front-ender to join the dev team at cxpartners? Bristol office: http://www.cxpartners.co.uk/cxblog/senior-front-end-engineer/


Contact me off list if you?d like to say hello. It?s a nice place to work :-)


No agencies please.


Stu




Stu Charlton
Head of Development
cxpartners

From me at amias.net  Fri Mar  6 09:40:02 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 09:40:02 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 March 2015 at 14:36, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cater Allen look great. A private bank no-less. Now all I need is the
> private member's club and I'm all set.


the lido is getting a bit full of oiks these days

Cheers
Amias

From nigel.legg at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 09:48:49 2015
From: nigel.legg at gmail.com (Nigel Legg)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 09:48:49 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's hardly a private members club - try the UniLit or Clifton Clubs

Cheers, Nigel
07914 740972


On 6 March 2015 at 09:40, Amias Channer <me at amias.net> wrote:

> On 4 March 2015 at 14:36, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Cater Allen look great. A private bank no-less. Now all I need is the
> > private member's club and I'm all set.
>
>
> the lido is getting a bit full of oiks these days
>
> Cheers
> Amias
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From rick.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 09:59:30 2015
From: rick.edwards at gmail.com (Rick Edwards)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 09:59:30 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 March 2015 at 09:48, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's hardly a private members club - try the UniLit or Clifton Clubs
>
>

Wow, UniLit doesn't even have ANY membership details available on the
website, that's pretty exclusive. I'm guessing invite only!

From joe.leech at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 10:02:36 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:02:36 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc39KxXd-iF0FZnncLTERfbHpsyhPvOEhdnvApiOsTrOGg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> the lido is getting a bit full of oiks these days

Isn't it just ;)


-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From nigel.legg at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 10:07:05 2015
From: nigel.legg at gmail.com (Nigel Legg)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 10:07:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>

Apparennty they don't let women into the bar.

Cheers, Nigel
07914 740972


On 6 March 2015 at 09:59, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6 March 2015 at 09:48, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's hardly a private members club - try the UniLit or Clifton Clubs
> >
> >
>
> Wow, UniLit doesn't even have ANY membership details available on the
> website, that's pretty exclusive. I'm guessing invite only!
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From Ping.Thomas at endsleigh.co.uk  Fri Mar  6 09:56:21 2015
From: Ping.Thomas at endsleigh.co.uk (Ping Thomas)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 09:56:21 +0000
Subject: [_]  Various technical roles at Endsleigh Insurance
Message-ID: <2504634D5F415B4CB492B391EFDDB62A2CC62C02@ADEXCH02.eis.endsleigh.co.uk>

Hello [_]



We're looking for lots of technical people to join our dev and digital teams at the Endsleigh offices in sunny Cheltenham:



Some great teams waiting for technical hands on people to join as:
Agile JavaScript Developer
Agile Test Analyst
Lead Developer/Scrum Master
Technical Test Analyst
Senior Web Developer

http://www.endsleighcareers.co.uk/index.html

No agencies please.

Thanks,
Ping


___________________________________________

Ping Thomas
Digital UX Manager
Endsleigh Insurance Services Limited
Phone - (01242) 866613


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From martin at spodnet.net  Fri Mar  6 11:07:17 2015
From: martin at spodnet.net (Martin Wheatley)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 11:07:17 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>

Who does the cleaning then ;)

<ducks>

On 06/03/2015 10:07, Nigel Legg wrote:
> Apparennty they don't let women into the bar.
>
> Cheers, Nigel
> 07914 740972
>
>
> On 6 March 2015 at 09:59, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6 March 2015 at 09:48, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's hardly a private members club - try the UniLit or Clifton Clubs
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Wow, UniLit doesn't even have ANY membership details available on the
>> website, that's pretty exclusive. I'm guessing invite only!
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>



From joe.leech at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 13:16:25 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 13:16:25 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc3YF4g+ntoKRMTqPxPYq40bJLQ7TsjHgHrZoYtuHHrGyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Chaps, this is going too far, please stop now even in jest you
shouldn't being saying this.

On 6 March 2015 at 11:07, Martin Wheatley <martin at spodnet.net> wrote:
> Who does the cleaning then ;)
>
> <ducks>
>
>
> On 06/03/2015 10:07, Nigel Legg wrote:
>>
>> Apparennty they don't let women into the bar.
>>
>> Cheers, Nigel
>> 07914 740972
>>
>>
>> On 6 March 2015 at 09:59, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 March 2015 at 09:48, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's hardly a private members club - try the UniLit or Clifton Clubs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow, UniLit doesn't even have ANY membership details available on the
>>> website, that's pretty exclusive. I'm guessing invite only!
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From rick.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 13:37:16 2015
From: rick.edwards at gmail.com (Rick Edwards)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 13:37:16 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc3YF4g+ntoKRMTqPxPYq40bJLQ7TsjHgHrZoYtuHHrGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
 <CA+8arc3YF4g+ntoKRMTqPxPYq40bJLQ7TsjHgHrZoYtuHHrGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHx1AVbV+d_HgjWLBcXpnGBT6R9=hCgR42B1_BJ6kUnfC+2ZuA@mail.gmail.com>

On 6 March 2015 at 13:16, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:

> Chaps, this is going too far, please stop now even in jest you
> shouldn't being saying this.
>
>

What the fact that they don't have any membership details on their website
or the allegation that they don't let women in?

From joe.leech at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 15:30:57 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 15:30:57 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAHx1AVbV+d_HgjWLBcXpnGBT6R9=hCgR42B1_BJ6kUnfC+2ZuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
 <CA+8arc3YF4g+ntoKRMTqPxPYq40bJLQ7TsjHgHrZoYtuHHrGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVbV+d_HgjWLBcXpnGBT6R9=hCgR42B1_BJ6kUnfC+2ZuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc0As_zNSD28CiyQaGrAUnqR09qUtc7_Sk-zYq+1K4ZhXw@mail.gmail.com>

No Rick, I was referring to Martin's comment about cleaning.

On 6 March 2015 at 13:37, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6 March 2015 at 13:16, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chaps, this is going too far, please stop now even in jest you
>> shouldn't being saying this.
>>
>>
>
> What the fact that they don't have any membership details on their website
> or the allegation that they don't let women in?
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 15:39:11 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 15:39:11 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc0As_zNSD28CiyQaGrAUnqR09qUtc7_Sk-zYq+1K4ZhXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
 <CA+8arc3YF4g+ntoKRMTqPxPYq40bJLQ7TsjHgHrZoYtuHHrGyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVbV+d_HgjWLBcXpnGBT6R9=hCgR42B1_BJ6kUnfC+2ZuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+8arc0As_zNSD28CiyQaGrAUnqR09qUtc7_Sk-zYq+1K4ZhXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpziivUw9LMeoxH_uY04O5EwbAxo_92NBA28NBZC+qXSa-Q@mail.gmail.com>

It's a dirty job but someones gotta do it.

On 6 March 2015 at 15:30, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
> No Rick, I was referring to Martin's comment about cleaning.
>
> On 6 March 2015 at 13:37, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6 March 2015 at 13:16, Joe Leech <joe.leech at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chaps, this is going too far, please stop now even in jest you
>>> shouldn't being saying this.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What the fact that they don't have any membership details on their website
>> or the allegation that they don't let women in?
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************************************
> @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
>
> Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From hamish.atkinson at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 16:25:08 2015
From: hamish.atkinson at gmail.com (Hamish Atkinson)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:25:08 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <CAPr6jy9659UTpkS_B4j+exZKzHMBrPjZOEFN96ybioXSGBhaTA@mail.gmail.com>

Post Office credit card is commision free for foreign transactions - I use
that for all my foreign currency expenditure.

Regards, Hamish
07547 393826
On 2 Mar 2015 12:34, "Philip Coombes" <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've finally lost patience with Lloyds for my business banking. Charging
> me nearly 5% on every non-GBP transaction I make (quite a few) really gets
> my goat, not to mention doubles the number of entries I need to add when
> doing my accounts. Also the only way you can get in touch with them is via
> the phone (with a smarmy voice menu and a 15 minute queue on hold) or by
> writing them a letter!
>
> So can anyone recommend a business account (current + savings) that isn't
> stuck in the 20th century? I have a First Direct current account which I'm
> happy with but it doesn't look like they do business banking.
>
> Bonus points for one that doesn't force you to use a card reader or
> imposes a 60 minute wait between setting up a new payment recipient and
> being able to actually pay them...
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Fri Mar  6 16:40:40 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:40:40 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAPr6jy9659UTpkS_B4j+exZKzHMBrPjZOEFN96ybioXSGBhaTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CAPr6jy9659UTpkS_B4j+exZKzHMBrPjZOEFN96ybioXSGBhaTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F9D888.4000205@phonecoop.coop>

Hamish Atkinson wrote:
> Post Office credit card is commision free for foreign transactions - I use
> that for all my foreign currency expenditure.

Only true on their Classic and Platinum cards IIRC so check carefully
and it still has possible cash fees and interest. I think Halifax
Clarity's has a better interest rate.

Hope that informs,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html



From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Fri Mar  6 18:10:59 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 18:10:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net>
Message-ID: <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>

Okay, Martin, you asked for this ;)

In a weird coincidence (although really there are no coincidences), I 
wrote something down the other day which has to do with the topic of 
cleaning and also gender stereotypes.

So, if you care to read about a view from 'the other side'..

"I grew up in the 70ies and 80ies and the gender relationship was 
modeled for me in a  particularly bad way. Basically, the women did 
*all* the housework. I am thinking of times spent at my parental 
grandmother's house, and of the following women: My grandmother, my 
mother, and the wife of my father's older brother. When our families 
were at that house, the women were basically falling over each other to 
do the cooking and tidying up. (With my father's younger brother's wife, 
some new ideas entered the house. Oh, and my grandmother was not very 
happy!). Okay, I might exaggerate a bit. What I mean is, nobody wanted 
to be seen as lazy, so everybody - every woman - worked. And from when I 
was a teen, and expected to do my share, too, I hated this. For one 
thing, I never seemed to see what needed to be done, but if somebody 
pointed it out to me, I didn't like to do it either. "

In the thing I wrote, I went on to write about the expectations I had of 
men, and I almost included that here. But it would be a bit personal, so 
I am leaving it now. Nevertheless, let me say, I think that the 
stereotypes we have of men are just as bad and damaging. The view that 
men mostly are the main providers for the family, and must always be 
strong, and so on.

I do believe these views are changing, while the reality often still is 
quite traditional (I am lucky, my husband does actually more cleaning 
than me, because he has the higher tidiness standards and is more 
efficient!). The younger generations have new challenges to face, which 
I don't envy them for at all, but that's a different story.

When jokes like this are made though, it gives me the impression that 
this list is seen as a men's club, even though it seems a harmless joke 
compared to others. I am not sure you would make a comment like that in 
a round where women are present?

Arrgh I have spent too much time on this now. So, bye for now, not 
expecting much response to this, i.e. don't even want to enter any great 
discussion, and in fact will shut this all down for a while. Just 
perhaps it's good to occasionally say something, in case people just 
don't know how things come across.

Katja

On 06/03/15 11:07, Martin Wheatley wrote:
> Who does the cleaning then ;)
>
> <ducks>
>
> On 06/03/2015 10:07, Nigel Legg wrote:
>> Apparennty they don't let women into the bar.
>>
>> Cheers, Nigel
>> 07914 740972
>>
>>
>> On 6 March 2015 at 09:59, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 March 2015 at 09:48, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's hardly a private members club - try the UniLit or Clifton Clubs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow, UniLit doesn't even have ANY membership details available on the
>>> website, that's pretty exclusive. I'm guessing invite only!
>>> -- 
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>
>




From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Fri Mar  6 19:08:30 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 19:08:30 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAEDY72T5NtZFi6ZSgpd3PMYBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But I come
from a time before political correctness......

Too many chips on shoulders these days !



Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Katja Durrani
Sent: 06 March 2015 18:11
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

I am not sure you would make a comment like that in a round where women are
present?




From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 19:54:35 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 19:54:35 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAEDY72T5NtZFi6ZSgpd3PMYBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAEDY72T5NtZFi6ZSgpd3PMYBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But I come
> from a time before political correctness......
>
> Too many chips on shoulders these days !

It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web
community, with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments
like the one you made just undermine the progress that those of us not
stuck in the 1970's* are trying to make.

* except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing tools

-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk  Fri Mar  6 20:15:24 2015
From: marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk (Marc Carter)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 20:15:24 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
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 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAEDY72T5NtZFi6ZSgpd3PMYBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE109DB8-B8FF-422E-8F63-B97AD433ACC6@theenglishgroup.co.uk>

I had read the emails and raised an eyebrow, but thought I'd stay out of the dialogue. 

On the other hand though I think I would like to say well said both Rick and Katja. Good points well made. 


Marc Carter

www.theenglishgroup.co.uk



> On 6 Mar 2015, at 19:54, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
>> I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But I come
>> from a time before political correctness......
>> 
>> Too many chips on shoulders these days !
> 
> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web
> community, with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments
> like the one you made just undermine the progress that those of us not
> stuck in the 1970's* are trying to make.
> 
> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing tools
> 
> -- 
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Fri Mar  6 20:40:30 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 20:40:30 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
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 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAEDY72T
 5NtZFi6ZSgpd3PMYBAAAAA A==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Not sure I made a sexist comment..?

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Rick Hurst
Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
To: underscore
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But I 
> come from a time before political correctness......
>
> Too many chips on shoulders these days !

It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web community,
with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments like the one you
made just undermine the progress that those of us not stuck in the 1970's*
are trying to make.

* except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing tools

--
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk

--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 03/04/15



From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 21:44:56 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 21:44:56 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKJZWesY=2QE5v4WKA+92oJ9kmYOdJ_VZ30djd8yeVbi0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry - wrong Martin ... Apologies..
On 6 Mar 2015 20:41, "Martin Moore" <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Not sure I made a sexist comment..?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of
> Rick Hurst
> Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But I
> > come from a time before political correctness......
> >
> > Too many chips on shoulders these days !
>
> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web community,
> with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments like the one you
> made just undermine the progress that those of us not stuck in the 1970's*
> are trying to make.
>
> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing tools
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 03/04/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From andy.4705 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 23:49:59 2015
From: andy.4705 at gmail.com (andy kisaragi)
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 23:49:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CA+8arc3QWEN30uOAqCg-WpreDWtTAJCSreJ2Rk+i7Mh5pJLhpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK0ich4tyDXkXDmXE5X3mycZqvezxPaV3cJQQFeU3bs3C5FaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
 <CAPK0icidf_P1R5YtonoGund72VTiCc-KHB+vt7BSz1sxiLFQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E971F412-2F29-408F-905E-47C63F4C7BDF@novate-it.co.uk>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
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 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Not sure I made a sexist comment..?
>

dude, come on...
a woman spoke up in a male-dominated space about how casual and even tongue
in cheek sexism is damaging, and how a specific comment made her feel
excluded from the space. you cheerfully hand waved away her reasoned,
polite, logical concerns as "political correctness" and "chips on
shoulders". you said you would happily repeat the comment IRL and that
"those present would know it was a joke" suggesting that she's wrong to
feel the way she does. your response boiled down to "don't be silly"...
"calm down dear".

so we reproduce sexism with a wry smile that tells the world it's ok
because we're just being ironic... but that wry smile, that "come on it's
clearly just a joke" is not actually an acceptable response to someone
telling you what you're doing - whether it's ironic or not - is harmful.

if we want to deal with inequality (in the tech world, or anywhere) then
step fing 1 is surely to listen to what people on the wrong end of axes of
oppression are saying. not talk over them, not ignore them, not humour them
but actually listen and take on board, and try to identify how our own
behaviour might be a contributor to inequality... just acknowledging
inequality and oppression by making funnies only entrenches the status quo

wooo friday night

andy




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of
> Rick Hurst
> Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But I
> > come from a time before political correctness......
> >
> > Too many chips on shoulders these days !
>
> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web community,
> with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments like the one you
> made just undermine the progress that those of us not stuck in the 1970's*
> are trying to make.
>
> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing tools
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 03/04/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
========
andykisaragi

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Sat Mar  7 11:25:26 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 11:25:26 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
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 <54F62FF6.7000003@web2wire.com>
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 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
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 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail
 .com> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAY
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 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience) or
because fewer females want to be in it? And if that's the case - which I
think it probably is - why? Because they think it's sexist or for some other
reason?

I've had many, many CV's land on my desk in my time and virtually none has
been from a female. Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked with/employed
have been females.


Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
andy kisaragi
Sent: 06 March 2015 23:50
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Not sure I made a sexist comment..?
>

dude, come on...
a woman spoke up in a male-dominated space about how casual and even tongue
in cheek sexism is damaging, and how a specific comment made her feel
excluded from the space. you cheerfully hand waved away her reasoned,
polite, logical concerns as "political correctness" and "chips on
shoulders". you said you would happily repeat the comment IRL and that
"those present would know it was a joke" suggesting that she's wrong to feel
the way she does. your response boiled down to "don't be silly"...
"calm down dear".

so we reproduce sexism with a wry smile that tells the world it's ok because
we're just being ironic... but that wry smile, that "come on it's clearly
just a joke" is not actually an acceptable response to someone telling you
what you're doing - whether it's ironic or not - is harmful.

if we want to deal with inequality (in the tech world, or anywhere) then
step fing 1 is surely to listen to what people on the wrong end of axes of
oppression are saying. not talk over them, not ignore them, not humour them
but actually listen and take on board, and try to identify how our own
behaviour might be a contributor to inequality... just acknowledging
inequality and oppression by making funnies only entrenches the status quo

wooo friday night

andy




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> Behalf Of Rick Hurst
> Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But 
> > I come from a time before political correctness......
> >
> > Too many chips on shoulders these days !
>
> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though 
> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web 
> community, with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments 
> like the one you made just undermine the progress that those of us not 
> stuck in the 1970's* are trying to make.
>
> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing 
> tools
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 
> 03/04/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



--
========
andykisaragi
--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 03/04/15



From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Sat Mar  7 12:22:09 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 12:22:09 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail .com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAY
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 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>

This is all getting very interesting indeed. But first of all, thanks so 
much, Andy (so many good points in your email!), Rick and Marc for your 
comments. I do feel understood. And btw I know so many web developers by 
now, of whom unsurprisingly the majority is male, and my experiences 
have been for the most part overwhelmingly positive. Many of the things 
that women online complain about have not happened to me. It could 
partly be my age, but I don't really think it is. Also, I think there 
could hardly be a more helpful community than this.

But still it doesn't mean that there is no sexism. Sexism is pervasive 
and systemic, it is not even just a male thing (and to make that point 
again, it works against men, too). If I could introduce you to my inner 
mysogynist, if I could extract it/him/her and turn into a person, you'd 
probably be surprised. Because, you know it has been planted there in 
the 70ies, that glorious era before political correctness..  Btw I am 
not particularly fond of some aspect of political correctness gone mad. 
At some point it becomes more harmful than helpful in itself, I totally 
agree with you there. But getting annoyed about cleaning=women comments 
isn't not one of those things, honestly.

But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience)

Of course it is not sexist in your experience, if you don't even 
recognise what is sexist...

Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked with/employed
have been females.

But this then, you don't know how much this means to me, it weighs tons 
compared to some throwaway sexist comments or failure to see them as 
sexist.

It would be interesting to know if these women are university-educated 
(but please don't ever tell me! because they probably are, and I need to 
know - and I actually do know deep down - that a self-taught excellent 
female programmer is possible too; it is just still unusual because it 
is even more difficult to become that than being an 'academic' female 
programmer)

I need to go now and have a heavy non-tech, mostly family-related 
scheduled ahead me which is why again I will stay away from emails for a 
bit. That is probably a good thing, because I have mostly said what I 
want to say. I could go on and on, but then people might not actually 
read it any more (some people on here know about my tendency for 
*really* long emails)

Cheers,
Katja






On 07/03/15 11:25, Martin Moore wrote:
> But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience) or
> because fewer females want to be in it? And if that's the case - which I
> think it probably is - why? Because they think it's sexist or for some other
> reason?
>
> I've had many, many CV's land on my desk in my time and virtually none has
> been from a female. Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
> webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked with/employed
> have been females.
>
>
> Martin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> andy kisaragi
> Sent: 06 March 2015 23:50
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Not sure I made a sexist comment..?
>>
> dude, come on...
> a woman spoke up in a male-dominated space about how casual and even tongue
> in cheek sexism is damaging, and how a specific comment made her feel
> excluded from the space. you cheerfully hand waved away her reasoned,
> polite, logical concerns as "political correctness" and "chips on
> shoulders". you said you would happily repeat the comment IRL and that
> "those present would know it was a joke" suggesting that she's wrong to feel
> the way she does. your response boiled down to "don't be silly"...
> "calm down dear".
>
> so we reproduce sexism with a wry smile that tells the world it's ok because
> we're just being ironic... but that wry smile, that "come on it's clearly
> just a joke" is not actually an acceptable response to someone telling you
> what you're doing - whether it's ironic or not - is harmful.
>
> if we want to deal with inequality (in the tech world, or anywhere) then
> step fing 1 is surely to listen to what people on the wrong end of axes of
> oppression are saying. not talk over them, not ignore them, not humour them
> but actually listen and take on board, and try to identify how our own
> behaviour might be a contributor to inequality... just acknowledging
> inequality and oppression by making funnies only entrenches the status quo
>
> wooo friday night
>
> andy
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
>> Behalf Of Rick Hurst
>> Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
>> To: underscore
>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But
>>> I come from a time before political correctness......
>>>
>>> Too many chips on shoulders these days !
>> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
>> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web
>> community, with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments
>> like the one you made just undermine the progress that those of us not
>> stuck in the 1970's* are trying to make.
>>
>> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing
>> tools
>>
>> --
>> Rick Hurst
>> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date:
>> 03/04/15
>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>
>
> --
> ========
> andykisaragi
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 03/04/15
>
>




From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Sat Mar  7 12:23:19 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 12:23:19 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail .com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAY
 AAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54FAEDB7.2030804@kdurrani.co.uk>

There's some quotes missing, but I think you know where they go..

On 07/03/15 12:22, Katja Durrani wrote:
> This is all getting very interesting indeed. But first of all, thanks 
> so much, Andy (so many good points in your email!), Rick and Marc for 
> your comments. I do feel understood. And btw I know so many web 
> developers by now, of whom unsurprisingly the majority is male, and my 
> experiences have been for the most part overwhelmingly positive. Many 
> of the things that women online complain about have not happened to 
> me. It could partly be my age, but I don't really think it is. Also, I 
> think there could hardly be a more helpful community than this.
>
> But still it doesn't mean that there is no sexism. Sexism is pervasive 
> and systemic, it is not even just a male thing (and to make that point 
> again, it works against men, too). If I could introduce you to my 
> inner mysogynist, if I could extract it/him/her and turn into a 
> person, you'd probably be surprised. Because, you know it has been 
> planted there in the 70ies, that glorious era before political 
> correctness..  Btw I am not particularly fond of some aspect of 
> political correctness gone mad. At some point it becomes more harmful 
> than helpful in itself, I totally agree with you there. But getting 
> annoyed about cleaning=women comments isn't not one of those things, 
> honestly.
>
> But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience)
>
> Of course it is not sexist in your experience, if you don't even 
> recognise what is sexist...
>
> Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
> webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked 
> with/employed
> have been females.
>
> But this then, you don't know how much this means to me, it weighs 
> tons compared to some throwaway sexist comments or failure to see them 
> as sexist.
>
> It would be interesting to know if these women are university-educated 
> (but please don't ever tell me! because they probably are, and I need 
> to know - and I actually do know deep down - that a self-taught 
> excellent female programmer is possible too; it is just still unusual 
> because it is even more difficult to become that than being an 
> 'academic' female programmer)
>
> I need to go now and have a heavy non-tech, mostly family-related 
> scheduled ahead me which is why again I will stay away from emails for 
> a bit. That is probably a good thing, because I have mostly said what 
> I want to say. I could go on and on, but then people might not 
> actually read it any more (some people on here know about my tendency 
> for *really* long emails)
>
> Cheers,
> Katja
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 07/03/15 11:25, Martin Moore wrote:
>> But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience) or
>> because fewer females want to be in it? And if that's the case - which I
>> think it probably is - why? Because they think it's sexist or for 
>> some other
>> reason?
>>
>> I've had many, many CV's land on my desk in my time and virtually 
>> none has
>> been from a female. Ironically, some of the best programmers (as 
>> opposed to
>> webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked 
>> with/employed
>> have been females.
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
>> Behalf Of
>> andy kisaragi
>> Sent: 06 March 2015 23:50
>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure I made a sexist comment..?
>>>
>> dude, come on...
>> a woman spoke up in a male-dominated space about how casual and even 
>> tongue
>> in cheek sexism is damaging, and how a specific comment made her feel
>> excluded from the space. you cheerfully hand waved away her reasoned,
>> polite, logical concerns as "political correctness" and "chips on
>> shoulders". you said you would happily repeat the comment IRL and that
>> "those present would know it was a joke" suggesting that she's wrong 
>> to feel
>> the way she does. your response boiled down to "don't be silly"...
>> "calm down dear".
>>
>> so we reproduce sexism with a wry smile that tells the world it's ok 
>> because
>> we're just being ironic... but that wry smile, that "come on it's 
>> clearly
>> just a joke" is not actually an acceptable response to someone 
>> telling you
>> what you're doing - whether it's ironic or not - is harmful.
>>
>> if we want to deal with inequality (in the tech world, or anywhere) then
>> step fing 1 is surely to listen to what people on the wrong end of 
>> axes of
>> oppression are saying. not talk over them, not ignore them, not 
>> humour them
>> but actually listen and take on board, and try to identify how our own
>> behaviour might be a contributor to inequality... just acknowledging
>> inequality and oppression by making funnies only entrenches the 
>> status quo
>>
>> wooo friday night
>>
>> andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
>>> Behalf Of Rick Hurst
>>> Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
>>> To: underscore
>>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But
>>>> I come from a time before political correctness......
>>>>
>>>> Too many chips on shoulders these days !
>>> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
>>> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web
>>> community, with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments
>>> like the one you made just undermine the progress that those of us not
>>> stuck in the 1970's* are trying to make.
>>>
>>> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing
>>> tools
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Rick Hurst
>>> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date:
>>> 03/04/15
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ========
>> andykisaragi
>> -- 
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 
>> 03/04/15
>>
>>
>




From marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk  Sat Mar  7 13:11:36 2015
From: marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk (Marc Carter)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 13:11:36 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail .com>
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 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20453093-F40D-4CA1-8E02-6D9A86558682@theenglishgroup.co.uk>

All I have to add at this point is that this is the first thread in a while that I have seen cause to take a moment to forward onwards to people in my address book 

M


Marc Carter

W. www.theenglishgroup.co.uk


> On 7 Mar 2015, at 12:22, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> This is all getting very interesting indeed. But first of all, thanks so much, Andy (so many good points in your email!), Rick and Marc for your comments. I do feel understood. And btw I know so many web developers by now, of whom unsurprisingly the majority is male, and my experiences have been for the most part overwhelmingly positive. Many of the things that women online complain about have not happened to me. It could partly be my age, but I don't really think it is. Also, I think there could hardly be a more helpful community than this.
> 
> But still it doesn't mean that there is no sexism. Sexism is pervasive and systemic, it is not even just a male thing (and to make that point again, it works against men, too). If I could introduce you to my inner mysogynist, if I could extract it/him/her and turn into a person, you'd probably be surprised. Because, you know it has been planted there in the 70ies, that glorious era before political correctness..  Btw I am not particularly fond of some aspect of political correctness gone mad. At some point it becomes more harmful than helpful in itself, I totally agree with you there. But getting annoyed about cleaning=women comments isn't not one of those things, honestly.
> 
> But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience)
> 
> Of course it is not sexist in your experience, if you don't even recognise what is sexist...
> 
> Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
> webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked with/employed
> have been females.
> 
> But this then, you don't know how much this means to me, it weighs tons compared to some throwaway sexist comments or failure to see them as sexist.
> 
> It would be interesting to know if these women are university-educated (but please don't ever tell me! because they probably are, and I need to know - and I actually do know deep down - that a self-taught excellent female programmer is possible too; it is just still unusual because it is even more difficult to become that than being an 'academic' female programmer)
> 
> I need to go now and have a heavy non-tech, mostly family-related scheduled ahead me which is why again I will stay away from emails for a bit. That is probably a good thing, because I have mostly said what I want to say. I could go on and on, but then people might not actually read it any more (some people on here know about my tendency for *really* long emails)
> 
> Cheers,
> Katja
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 07/03/15 11:25, Martin Moore wrote:
>> But is it male dominated because it's sexist (not in my experience) or
>> because fewer females want to be in it? And if that's the case - which I
>> think it probably is - why? Because they think it's sexist or for some other
>> reason?
>> 
>> I've had many, many CV's land on my desk in my time and virtually none has
>> been from a female. Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
>> webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked with/employed
>> have been females.
>> 
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
>> andy kisaragi
>> Sent: 06 March 2015 23:50
>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Not sure I made a sexist comment..?
>> dude, come on...
>> a woman spoke up in a male-dominated space about how casual and even tongue
>> in cheek sexism is damaging, and how a specific comment made her feel
>> excluded from the space. you cheerfully hand waved away her reasoned,
>> polite, logical concerns as "political correctness" and "chips on
>> shoulders". you said you would happily repeat the comment IRL and that
>> "those present would know it was a joke" suggesting that she's wrong to feel
>> the way she does. your response boiled down to "don't be silly"...
>> "calm down dear".
>> 
>> so we reproduce sexism with a wry smile that tells the world it's ok because
>> we're just being ironic... but that wry smile, that "come on it's clearly
>> just a joke" is not actually an acceptable response to someone telling you
>> what you're doing - whether it's ironic or not - is harmful.
>> 
>> if we want to deal with inequality (in the tech world, or anywhere) then
>> step fing 1 is surely to listen to what people on the wrong end of axes of
>> oppression are saying. not talk over them, not ignore them, not humour them
>> but actually listen and take on board, and try to identify how our own
>> behaviour might be a contributor to inequality... just acknowledging
>> inequality and oppression by making funnies only entrenches the status quo
>> 
>> wooo friday night
>> 
>> andy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
>>> Behalf Of Rick Hurst
>>> Sent: 06 March 2015 19:55
>>> To: underscore
>>> Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I would :) And those present would know it was a joke and laugh. But
>>>> I come from a time before political correctness......
>>>> 
>>>> Too many chips on shoulders these days !
>>> It's not just "political correctness" and "chips on shoulders" though
>>> Martin, there's a massive problem of inequality in the IT/ web
>>> community, with women being made to feel unwelcome - sexist comments
>>> like the one you made just undermine the progress that those of us not
>>> stuck in the 1970's* are trying to make.
>>> 
>>> * except maybe with our choice of operating system and code editing
>>> tools
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Rick Hurst
>>> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>>> 
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date:
>>> 03/04/15
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> ========
>> andykisaragi
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9226 - Release Date: 03/04/15
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Sat Mar  7 14:14:23 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 14:14:23 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail .com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAY
 AAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>,
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>

From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk>

Ironically, some of the best programmers (as opposed to
webby/graphics types which isn't really my area) I've worked with/employed
have been females.

But this then, you don't know how much this means to me, it weighs tons
compared to some throwaway sexist comments or failure to see them as
sexist.

Hmm, I think to some degree the problem is that many controversial comments are fine amongst friends but can cause offence to strangers. Thus much of time it comes down to knowing when to say something rather than obeying political correctness. Sometimes it's tempting to be mischievous but it's socially risky.

As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.

You might be interested to know that one of the famous people in the early days of mechanical computation was Ada Lovelace (Byron), a woman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace


Regards,
Erik Wallace



From rob at hobbyistsoftware.com  Sat Mar  7 18:54:21 2015
From: rob at hobbyistsoftware.com (Rob Jonson)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 18:54:21 +0000
Subject: [_] The hardest App Store approval I ever had!
Message-ID: <CACTOy+opup6NfLPtUF0g3Ww35K2qiK5ctv46vJrDS=RYYtKKzA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

I finally got my app Right Click Booster through the appstore approval
process.

Right Click Booster lets you right click on anything in finder, and do an
action on the file or folder.
It's totally scriptable - and really easy for you to write your own bash or
applescripts which can run on right click options.

You can imagine that getting an app which runs scripts outside the sandbox
as a result of a click in the finder was something of a battle!

Anyway - it is live now, and free for now as well - so please give it a go
and let me know what you think:

http://blog.hobbyistsoftware.com/2015/03/right-click-booster-the-hardest-app-store-approval-i-ever-had/

cheers,

Rob


-- 





Hobbyist Software is a trading name of Hobbyist Software Limited.
Registered office 12 Fraley Rd, Bristol, BS93BS. Registered in England.
Company no:7876492



-- 





Hobbyist Software is a trading name of Hobbyist Software Limited.
Registered office 12 Fraley Rd, Bristol, BS93BS. Registered in England.
Company no:7876492

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Sat Mar  7 19:01:46 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2015 19:01:46 -0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <F4C8E06A-C08F-450A-97C3-1B0B417BA0F0@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail .com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAY
 AAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>,
 <54FAE D71.2060404@kdurrani.c
 o.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACj6osb+zp5PibGRMbt+h4cBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Pretty much spot on Erik - with friends (female) I often feel I'm expected
to make a comment .... And they're disappointed if I don't - but they know
me well. And with a new group I'll always work out the personalities - and
if (as happens quite often) a female makes a humuorous comment that would be
taken as sexist if made by a man, I'll join in.


-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Erik Wallace
Sent: 07 March 2015 14:14
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Modern Business Banking

Hmm, I think to some degree the problem is that many controversial comments
are fine amongst friends but can cause offence to strangers. Thus much of
time it comes down to knowing when to say something rather than obeying
political correctness. Sometimes it's tempting to be mischievous but it's
socially risky.




From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Sat Mar  7 20:11:45 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 20:11:45 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAGKubK++k_9nOq+4WiDnYxAd5mHGj5NtrXt-LjaUnjBWa94wPQ@mail.gmail .com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAY
 AAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAJIXoWs6x7hGpjKZrukDi10BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>,
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>

No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think 
that's the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also 
always supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly 
gender-specific traits..

Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes. 
Also don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but 
ultimately probably not that important.

Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.

'Night all
Katja


On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.




From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 13:16:35 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 13:16:35 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>

So I'm taking 5 minutes out of doing the family's laundry to post this.

Like Katja I'm not really good at or enjoying this line of work. I
would much prefer to be learning some new programming or API. Even
just lazing about after a hard week. Perhaps get on with the long list
of DIY tasks I now never seem to get around to doing :(

So today in International Women's day
http://www.internationalwomensday.com/ we get this news: "Washing
instructions: Give this shirt to a woman. It's her job"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31786562

Wish me good luck with trying that eh?

Steve


On 7 March 2015 at 20:11, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
> No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think that's
> the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also always
> supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly gender-specific
> traits..
>
> Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes. Also
> don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but ultimately
> probably not that important.
>
> Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.
>
> 'Night all
> Katja
>
>
> On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
>>
>> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time
>> again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have
>> greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have
>> no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be
>> alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that
>> the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved
>> about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.
>
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Sun Mar  8 19:41:49 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 19:41:49 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>

:)

At some point we might get help from these 'people' 
https://medium.com/matter/why-it-s-almost-impossible-to-teach-a-robot-to-do-your-laundry-2a4a3efb3775 
Will they manage not to produce lotf single socks I wonder?

I have not paid that much attention to IWD, was reminded though that the 
"International" in it is quite important as in many countries women have 
to put up with much more than being associated with cleaning..

Have to just post this one other thing that might help people who don't 
see the sexism 
https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce (which also 
has my first ever comment on Medium in it, which in that case is 
actually pro-man)

But most of all, please watch this video, especially those of you who 
are parents to girls, but then I guess those who are fathers to boys 
should watch it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs

Cheers,
Katja


On 08/03/15 13:16, 2966710 . wrote:ic
> So I'm taking 5 minutes out of doing the family's laundry to post this.
>
> Like Katja I'm not really good at or enjoying this line of work. I
> would much prefer to be learning some new programming or API. Even
> just lazing about after a hard week. Perhaps get on with the long list
> of DIY tasks I now never seem to get around to doing :(
>
> So today in International Women's day
> http://www.internationalwomensday.com/ we get this news: "Washing
> instructions: Give this shirt to a woman. It's her job"
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31786562
>
> Wish me good luck with trying that eh?
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 7 March 2015 at 20:11, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>> No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think that's
>> the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also always
>> supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly gender-specific
>> traits..
>>
>> Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes. Also
>> don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but ultimately
>> probably not that important.
>>
>> Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.
>>
>> 'Night all
>> Katja
>>
>>
>> On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
>>> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time
>>> again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have
>>> greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have
>>> no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be
>>> alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that
>>> the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved
>>> about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore




From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 10:36:30 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 10:36:30 +0000
Subject: [_] Bath Ruby Conference - 13th March
Message-ID: <069e4d6a95274cf4ab0b03ed9f679637@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

Just a quick reminder that we have a free ticket available for the Bath Ruby Conference coming up on Friday. There have been no takers so far and it seems silly letting it go to waste.

Feel free to pass this email on to anyone you think might be interested.

Cheers

Stew


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 11:04:30 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:04:30 +0000
Subject: [_] Bath Ruby Conference - 13th March
In-Reply-To: <069e4d6a95274cf4ab0b03ed9f679637@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <069e4d6a95274cf4ab0b03ed9f679637@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzhGeQ-Z5=sUjAC85R7ExyYSYr1DvAjWf_3BfU1ZpW+mDA@mail.gmail.com>

I keep reading that as  "Bath Rugby Conference".

Steve

On 9 March 2015 at 10:36, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> Just a quick reminder that we have a free ticket available for the Bath Ruby Conference coming up on Friday. There have been no takers so far and it seems silly letting it go to waste.
>
> Feel free to pass this email on to anyone you think might be interested.
>
> Cheers
>
> Stew
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From taholder at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 11:05:26 2015
From: taholder at gmail.com (Tom Holder)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:05:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Bath Ruby Conference - 13th March
In-Reply-To: <069e4d6a95274cf4ab0b03ed9f679637@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <069e4d6a95274cf4ab0b03ed9f679637@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CAGobHETMoWHHFLHy_ZOs4riUgcQE=KviuTQo1C=2=GVR_FOdaA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stewart,

We ran a competition to give one away. The competition is closed now but if
you don't get any takers I'm sure we can pull another winner for you to
pass it along to?

Tom

On 9 March 2015 at 10:36, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:

> Just a quick reminder that we have a free ticket available for the Bath
> Ruby Conference coming up on Friday. There have been no takers so far and
> it seems silly letting it go to waste.
>
> Feel free to pass this email on to anyone you think might be interested.
>
> Cheers
>
> Stew
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From theUKdude at theUKdude.com  Mon Mar  9 11:08:53 2015
From: theUKdude at theUKdude.com (theUKdude)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:08:53 -0000
Subject: [_] Networking My Office
Message-ID: <000301d05a59$6e819680$4b84c380$@theUKdude.com>

Hi all,

Firstly, I know *very little* about networking......

I have run an Ethernet cable from my in-home router to my office (100ft
away, completely different electricity ring) and have hooked my computer up
to it. Everything is good, however, I'd like to have wireless in the office,
and there's also a couple of other bits of hardware I'd like to hook up to
the network ...  so, I'm assuming I need to plug the Ethernet cable in the
office into some kind of hardware that gives me an additional few ports and
also wireless? Someone mentioned to me that most routers can be configured
as an Access Point, but doesn't this only give me wireless?

If not, would this do the trick? http://www.ebuyer.com/667366

Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this for me.

theUKdude





From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 11:18:26 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:18:26 -0000
Subject: [_] Networking My Office
In-Reply-To: <000301d05a59$6e819680$4b84c380$@theUKdude.com>
References: <000301d05a59$6e819680$4b84c380$@theUKdude.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFqrST8F7BlMmgGXO1VRUbUBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Buy a Wireless router and connect it to the Ethernet cable. You'll probably
have 4 ports on the new router, just plug computer, printer etc. into them.
If you want to be able to see other stuff in the house, plug the Ethernet
cable into one of the 4 lan ports (leaving you with 3) and disable DHCP -
otherwise plug into the WAN/Internet port. You'll then be using the house
router for DHCP and will be on the same subnet.


Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
theUKdude
Sent: 09 March 2015 11:09
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Networking My Office

Hi all,

Firstly, I know *very little* about networking......

I have run an Ethernet cable from my in-home router to my office (100ft
away, completely different electricity ring) and have hooked my computer up
to it. Everything is good, however, I'd like to have wireless in the office,
and there's also a couple of other bits of hardware I'd like to hook up to
the network ...  so, I'm assuming I need to plug the Ethernet cable in the
office into some kind of hardware that gives me an additional few ports and
also wireless? Someone mentioned to me that most routers can be configured
as an Access Point, but doesn't this only give me wireless?

If not, would this do the trick? http://www.ebuyer.com/667366

Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this for me.

theUKdude




--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9247 - Release Date: 03/07/15



From gpearman at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 11:40:22 2015
From: gpearman at gmail.com (Gary Pearman)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:40:22 +0000
Subject: [_] Recommended Xero accountants
Message-ID: <D049ED38-1647-44E0-A33D-A20240431116@gmail.com>

Hi all,

Can anybody recommend any accountants that work with Xero? Thanks.

Best regards,
Gary.



From joe.leech at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 11:41:51 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:41:51 +0000
Subject: [_] Networking My Office
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFqrST8F7BlMmgGXO1VRUbUBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <000301d05a59$6e819680$4b84c380$@theUKdude.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFqrST8F7BlMmgGXO1VRUbUBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc1sb6cmOgk4qAOshxOe=AR9iNn7enEs+YSkRr5wDmcmzQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've done something similar with an old home router I had.

Here's how:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/network-wifi/3494655/how-set-up-router-as-repeater/

On 9 March 2015 at 11:18, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> Buy a Wireless router and connect it to the Ethernet cable. You'll probably
> have 4 ports on the new router, just plug computer, printer etc. into them.
> If you want to be able to see other stuff in the house, plug the Ethernet
> cable into one of the 4 lan ports (leaving you with 3) and disable DHCP -
> otherwise plug into the WAN/Internet port. You'll then be using the house
> router for DHCP and will be on the same subnet.
>
>
> Martin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> theUKdude
> Sent: 09 March 2015 11:09
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] Networking My Office
>
> Hi all,
>
> Firstly, I know *very little* about networking......
>
> I have run an Ethernet cable from my in-home router to my office (100ft
> away, completely different electricity ring) and have hooked my computer up
> to it. Everything is good, however, I'd like to have wireless in the office,
> and there's also a couple of other bits of hardware I'd like to hook up to
> the network ...  so, I'm assuming I need to plug the Ethernet cable in the
> office into some kind of hardware that gives me an additional few ports and
> also wireless? Someone mentioned to me that most routers can be configured
> as an Access Point, but doesn't this only give me wireless?
>
> If not, would this do the trick? http://www.ebuyer.com/667366
>
> Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.
>
> Thanks for any light you can shed on this for me.
>
> theUKdude
>
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9247 - Release Date: 03/07/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From theUKdude at theUKdude.com  Mon Mar  9 11:51:28 2015
From: theUKdude at theUKdude.com (theUKdude)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:51:28 -0000
Subject: [_] Networking My Office
In-Reply-To: <CA+8arc1sb6cmOgk4qAOshxOe=AR9iNn7enEs+YSkRr5wDmcmzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000301d05a59$6e819680$4b84c380$@theUKdude.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFqrST8F7BlMmgGXO1VRUbUBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CA+8arc1sb6cmOgk4qAOshxOe=AR9iNn7enEs+YSkRr5wDmcmzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d05a5f$6175d6d0$24618470$@theUKdude.com>

Joe Leech wrote on 09 March 2015 11:42
> 
> I've done something similar with an old home router I had.
> 
> Here's how:
> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/network-wifi/3494655/how-set-up-
> router-as-repeater/

Sweet. Thanks guys.

theUKdude

> 
> On 9 March 2015 at 11:18, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> > Buy a Wireless router and connect it to the Ethernet cable. You'll
> > probably have 4 ports on the new router, just plug computer, printer
etc.
> into them.
> > If you want to be able to see other stuff in the house, plug the
> > Ethernet cable into one of the 4 lan ports (leaving you with 3) and
> > disable DHCP - otherwise plug into the WAN/Internet port. You'll then
> > be using the house router for DHCP and will be on the same subnet.
> >
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> > Behalf Of theUKdude
> > Sent: 09 March 2015 11:09
> > To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: [_] Networking My Office
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Firstly, I know *very little* about networking......
> >
> > I have run an Ethernet cable from my in-home router to my office
> > (100ft away, completely different electricity ring) and have hooked my
> > computer up to it. Everything is good, however, I'd like to have
> > wireless in the office, and there's also a couple of other bits of
> > hardware I'd like to hook up to the network ...  so, I'm assuming I
> > need to plug the Ethernet cable in the office into some kind of
> > hardware that gives me an additional few ports and also wireless?
> > Someone mentioned to me that most routers can be configured as an
> Access Point, but doesn't this only give me wireless?
> >
> > If not, would this do the trick? http://www.ebuyer.com/667366
> >
> > Trying to keep my costs to a minimum.
> >
> > Thanks for any light you can shed on this for me.
> >
> > theUKdude
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9247 - Release Date:
> > 03/07/15
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> 
> 
> --
> *****************************************************
> @mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk
> 
> Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-
> score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From matt at quernus.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 14:38:47 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:38:47 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
Message-ID: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>

Hi all,
  Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a contractor less. 

By all means email me off-list if you don?t want to mention anything on here.

-Matt

? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 14:47:30 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:47:30 -0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACUN/O+HcEBHhcBpXU/lXj0BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

The Police. Given you can get locked up for longer for a dodgy tweet than death by dangerous driving I'd say you were covered!


Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Matt Hamilton
Sent: 09 March 2015 14:39
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client

Hi all,
  Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a contractor less. 

By all means email me off-list if you don?t want to mention anything on here.

-Matt

? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9247 - Release Date: 03/07/15



From abrahamster at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 14:48:27 2015
From: abrahamster at gmail.com (Dave Abraham)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:48:27 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+deSx_GZnS7MUJZTUa8CkLCEb6rdoFEutc+X0a2n6=_yPdqvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I would actually give them my address (which is easy to find anyway). In
general anyone willing to make a threat by email (or social media, or any
digital medium) has very little backbone and would be unwilling to stand
face to face and in my experience they often end up looking and feeling
rather foolish when they realise that you have no problem with standing
face to face to debate their grievances.

But the correct and sensible thing to do would be to report the threat to
the police, which has to be the right way to handle it - I wish I was
sensible :(

Dave

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>   Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with
> harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working
> for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a
> threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to
> contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a
> contractor less.
>
> By all means email me off-list if you don?t want to mention anything on
> here.
>
> -Matt
>
> ?
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered
> number: 09076246
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Mon Mar  9 14:50:03 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:50:03 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEhkTEWbac903b1Ne60APSALAne1_rSvoCyFy_Yr5i3-z8w@mail.gmail.com>

Matt,

I've not had experience based upon a client/contractor relationship, but a
friend of mine had a stalker for a while and she was advised to keep a
diary and/or evidence of any harassment. I guess this shouldn't be any
different.

m


On 9 March 2015 at 14:38, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>   Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with
> harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working
> for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a
> threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to
> contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a
> contractor less.
>
> By all means email me off-list if you don?t want to mention anything on
> here.
>
> -Matt
>
> ?
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered
> number: 09076246
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore




-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  9 14:40:43 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:40:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1517726483.1489936.1425912043266.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

the police??All the best

Adam 

     On Monday, 9 March 2015, 14:39, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:
   

 Hi all,
? Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a contractor less. 

By all means email me off-list if you don?t want to mention anything on here.

-Matt

? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

   

From matt at quernus.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 14:58:02 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:58:02 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <CA+=VEhkTEWbac903b1Ne60APSALAne1_rSvoCyFy_Yr5i3-z8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
 <CA+=VEhkTEWbac903b1Ne60APSALAne1_rSvoCyFy_Yr5i3-z8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D540951-8008-4E07-813E-C1E47BF8EB30@quernus.co.uk>


> On 9 Mar 2015, at 14:50, Mark Chitty <mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com> wrote:
> 
> Matt,
> 
> I've not had experience based upon a client/contractor relationship, but a
> friend of mine had a stalker for a while and she was advised to keep a
> diary and/or evidence of any harassment. I guess this shouldn't be any
> different.


Yes, let?s say that a diary of events was being kept. Most of the harassment is electronic and via email/sms/IM. From a known person. Voicemail messages were being saved etc. From what I can see, that being an independent contractor means there is no real HR-route to deal with this, and that it is not really much different that what would be occurring between two private individuals. So it does look like the Police would be the best recourse.

Thanks all.

-Matt



? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From matt at matthewwilkes.name  Mon Mar  9 14:58:44 2015
From: matt at matthewwilkes.name (Matthew Wilkes)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:58:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54FDB524.1060603@matthewwilkes.name>

On 2015-03-09 14:38, Matt Hamilton wrote:
> Hi all,
>    Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a contractor less.

So, yes. I've had this from a client, and from talking to some of that client's other suppliers they had similar experiences.

We chose to ignore it and end the relationship in the least confrontational way possible. This particular client was not UK based and we were aware of them both committing computer crimes and threatening vexatious litigation so it seemed *pragmatically* best to avoid a conflict.

That said, we weren't owed any money and were at a natural stopping point in the work, so that was easy to do. Others found themselves writing off thousands of pounds' worth of invoices.

Certainly, if this was happening from a UK client (or a British Citizen) then the police would be the correct choice. If the client isn't within easy grasp of A&S police then it might be worth weighing up what you'd expect the personal fallout to be.

Might also be worth making a statement, even if you don't push for any further action, in case this develops into legal action later.

Matt


From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 14:59:15 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 14:59:15 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AEA4C90E-65A1-40A9-8EB5-9020EDDDA31B@craigfrancis.co.uk>

That's an interesting question... depending on the person/situation, I would try to give them a single warning... telling them I will be going to the police if they continue (they might not have thought about what they are saying)... and if they continue, tell the police, with the evidence clearly laid out.

Something to keep in mind, if they are doing this to one person, they are almost certainly doing it to others.

Craig




On 9 Mar 2015, at 14:38, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>  Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a contractor less. 
> 
> By all means email me off-list if you don?t want to mention anything on here.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> ? 
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
> 
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From matt at quernus.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 15:11:22 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 15:11:22 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <AEA4C90E-65A1-40A9-8EB5-9020EDDDA31B@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
 <AEA4C90E-65A1-40A9-8EB5-9020EDDDA31B@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E55DA3A2-C277-4AD4-8EB8-2197BD7A1D95@quernus.co.uk>


> On 9 Mar 2015, at 14:59, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> That's an interesting question... depending on the person/situation, I would try to give them a single warning... telling them I will be going to the police if they continue (they might not have thought about what they are saying)... and if they continue, tell the police, with the evidence clearly laid out.

Lets say that the situation is brought to the attention of the higher up powers in the client?s company. But they didn?t do anything significant about it. The contractor is in the middle of a contract, and financially would be in a significant worse situation if the contract was terminated.

> Something to keep in mind, if they are doing this to one person, they are almost certainly doing it to others.


Yes, that is true.

-Matt

? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From matt at quernus.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 15:13:01 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 15:13:01 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <54FDB524.1060603@matthewwilkes.name>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
 <54FDB524.1060603@matthewwilkes.name>
Message-ID: <17190ECE-E20E-4590-9A90-7F9A9C729AFA@quernus.co.uk>


> On 9 Mar 2015, at 14:58, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name> wrote:
> 
> On 2015-03-09 14:38, Matt Hamilton wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>   Hypothetical situation. But was wondering if anyone had dealt with harassment from a client before? Say someone is a contractor and working for a client (ie. not an employee) and you then receive emails of a threatening nature, threats to family, etc. Who would you advise them to contact? If you were an employee you would have certain rights, but as a contractor less.
> 
> So, yes. I've had this from a client, and from talking to some of that client's other suppliers they had similar experiences.
> 
> We chose to ignore it and end the relationship in the least confrontational way possible. This particular client was not UK based and we were aware of them both committing computer crimes and threatening vexatious litigation so it seemed *pragmatically* best to avoid a conflict.
> 
> That said, we weren't owed any money and were at a natural stopping point in the work, so that was easy to do. Others found themselves writing off thousands of pounds' worth of invoices.

Thanks for your feedback.

> Certainly, if this was happening from a UK client (or a British Citizen) then the police would be the correct choice. If the client isn't within easy grasp of A&S police then it might be worth weighing up what you'd expect the personal fallout to be.

Assuming the client was not in the UK, but the person in question making the threats was a UK citizen then yes, I guess police would still be an option.

> Might also be worth making a statement, even if you don't push for any further action, in case this develops into legal action later.

True.

-Matt


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From james at nuvola.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 15:13:23 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2015 15:13:23 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <6D540951-8008-4E07-813E-C1E47BF8EB30@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
 <CA+=VEhkTEWbac903b1Ne60APSALAne1_rSvoCyFy_Yr5i3-z8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <6D540951-8008-4E07-813E-C1E47BF8EB30@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54FDB893.8050304@nuvola.co.uk>

I think most HR departments would be very interested and concerned if 
one of their employees were behaving in this way to a supplier, so I 
would take it up with them. Might be harder if the offender is the MD of 
course...

Had a situation years ago while working for a consultancy where we were 
going through a particularly difficult scope/design process with a large 
multinational and one of their team physically threatened one of my 
colleagues. She raised it with our programme manager who complained to 
his counterpart at the client, and the guy concerned was hauled before 
senior management and HR.

Should be easy enough to find the client's HR manager and complain, 
attaching the evidence and mentioning that this is also getting passed 
to the police?

On 09/03/15 14:58, Matt Hamilton wrote:
>  From what I can see, that being an independent contractor means there is no real HR-route to deal with this




From fiznool at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 15:14:01 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 15:14:01 +0000
Subject: [_] Recommended Xero accountants
In-Reply-To: <D049ED38-1647-44E0-A33D-A20240431116@gmail.com>
References: <D049ED38-1647-44E0-A33D-A20240431116@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9aPkm50gf1an6uHaAW1bemHDNZPCLMMgw03fXh-VEALJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gary,

Give Kevin at edenaccountants.co.uk a call, he uses Xero.

Tom
On 9 Mar 2015 11:40, "Gary Pearman" <gpearman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Can anybody recommend any accountants that work with Xero? Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
> Gary.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 15:20:50 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 15:20:50 +0000
Subject: [_] Harassment by a client
In-Reply-To: <E55DA3A2-C277-4AD4-8EB8-2197BD7A1D95@quernus.co.uk>
References: <A187CB8D-970F-46B0-B283-14AE2FA7B1A2@quernus.co.uk>
 <AEA4C90E-65A1-40A9-8EB5-9020EDDDA31B@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <E55DA3A2-C277-4AD4-8EB8-2197BD7A1D95@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzhNnf9BqD4k6YgWUuEzf4gwtNZVHZY34ai6zwGXn6V5Zg@mail.gmail.com>

How about joining IPSE https://www.ipse.co.uk/advice and getting legal advice?

Steve

On 9 March 2015 at 15:11, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 9 Mar 2015, at 14:59, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> That's an interesting question... depending on the person/situation, I would try to give them a single warning... telling them I will be going to the police if they continue (they might not have thought about what they are saying)... and if they continue, tell the police, with the evidence clearly laid out.
>
> Lets say that the situation is brought to the attention of the higher up powers in the client?s company. But they didn?t do anything significant about it. The contractor is in the middle of a contract, and financially would be in a significant worse situation if the contract was terminated.
>
>> Something to keep in mind, if they are doing this to one person, they are almost certainly doing it to others.
>
>
> Yes, that is true.
>
> -Matt
>
> ?
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 16:16:43 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 16:16:43 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>

Thanks Katja :-)

I'm not sure if I can (or should) add anything else... other than agreeing there is a problem.

Maybe the more people acknowledge the issue(s), and try to understand, we can improve (and potentially look like idiots in trying).

I release prejudices and stereotypes exist for a reason (so our simple monkey brains can quickly make assumptions, and keep life simple)... but they cause so many problems.

If we have an excellent programmer, who does exceedingly good work... does it matter where they happen to have been born, their age, gender, sex, height, skin colour, etc?

For example... should we assume that if they are Indian they fall into the stereotypes often associated with "cheap off-shore developers"?

If reading an email from someone you don't know, should we look at their name (or picture) and make assumptions before reading the content?

Craig





On 8 Mar 2015, at 19:41, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:

> :)
> 
> At some point we might get help from these 'people' https://medium.com/matter/why-it-s-almost-impossible-to-teach-a-robot-to-do-your-laundry-2a4a3efb3775 Will they manage not to produce lotf single socks I wonder?
> 
> I have not paid that much attention to IWD, was reminded though that the "International" in it is quite important as in many countries women have to put up with much more than being associated with cleaning..
> 
> Have to just post this one other thing that might help people who don't see the sexism https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce (which also has my first ever comment on Medium in it, which in that case is actually pro-man)
> 
> But most of all, please watch this video, especially those of you who are parents to girls, but then I guess those who are fathers to boys should watch it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs
> 
> Cheers,
> Katja
> 
> 
> On 08/03/15 13:16, 2966710 . wrote:ic
>> So I'm taking 5 minutes out of doing the family's laundry to post this.
>> 
>> Like Katja I'm not really good at or enjoying this line of work. I
>> would much prefer to be learning some new programming or API. Even
>> just lazing about after a hard week. Perhaps get on with the long list
>> of DIY tasks I now never seem to get around to doing :(
>> 
>> So today in International Women's day
>> http://www.internationalwomensday.com/ we get this news: "Washing
>> instructions: Give this shirt to a woman. It's her job"
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31786562
>> 
>> Wish me good luck with trying that eh?
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> On 7 March 2015 at 20:11, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>>> No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think that's
>>> the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also always
>>> supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly gender-specific
>>> traits..
>>> 
>>> Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes. Also
>>> don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but ultimately
>>> probably not that important.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.
>>> 
>>> 'Night all
>>> Katja
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
>>>> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time
>>>> again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have
>>>> greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have
>>>> no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be
>>>> alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that
>>>> the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved
>>>> about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 16:21:59 2015
From: marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk (Marc Carter)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2015 16:21:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54FDC8A7.40002@theenglishgroup.co.uk>

Interesting article in yesterday's Observer (Tech Monthly):

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/08/sexism-silicon-valley-women

'So Why Are There So Few Women Working In Tech?

...the online version doesn't have all the info graphics that appeared 
in the newspaper article.

Marc Carter

www.theenglishgroup.co.uk



On 09/03/2015 16:16, Craig Francis wrote:
> Thanks Katja :-)
>
> I'm not sure if I can (or should) add anything else... other than agreeing there is a problem.
>
> Maybe the more people acknowledge the issue(s), and try to understand, we can improve (and potentially look like idiots in trying).
>
> I release prejudices and stereotypes exist for a reason (so our simple monkey brains can quickly make assumptions, and keep life simple)... but they cause so many problems.
>
> If we have an excellent programmer, who does exceedingly good work... does it matter where they happen to have been born, their age, gender, sex, height, skin colour, etc?
>
> For example... should we assume that if they are Indian they fall into the stereotypes often associated with "cheap off-shore developers"?
>
> If reading an email from someone you don't know, should we look at their name (or picture) and make assumptions before reading the content?
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2015, at 19:41, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> :)
>>
>> At some point we might get help from these 'people' https://medium.com/matter/why-it-s-almost-impossible-to-teach-a-robot-to-do-your-laundry-2a4a3efb3775 Will they manage not to produce lotf single socks I wonder?
>>
>> I have not paid that much attention to IWD, was reminded though that the "International" in it is quite important as in many countries women have to put up with much more than being associated with cleaning..
>>
>> Have to just post this one other thing that might help people who don't see the sexism https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce (which also has my first ever comment on Medium in it, which in that case is actually pro-man)
>>
>> But most of all, please watch this video, especially those of you who are parents to girls, but then I guess those who are fathers to boys should watch it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Katja
>>
>>
>> On 08/03/15 13:16, 2966710 . wrote:ic
>>> So I'm taking 5 minutes out of doing the family's laundry to post this.
>>>
>>> Like Katja I'm not really good at or enjoying this line of work. I
>>> would much prefer to be learning some new programming or API. Even
>>> just lazing about after a hard week. Perhaps get on with the long list
>>> of DIY tasks I now never seem to get around to doing :(
>>>
>>> So today in International Women's day
>>> http://www.internationalwomensday.com/ we get this news: "Washing
>>> instructions: Give this shirt to a woman. It's her job"
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31786562
>>>
>>> Wish me good luck with trying that eh?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 March 2015 at 20:11, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think that's
>>>> the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also always
>>>> supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly gender-specific
>>>> traits..
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes. Also
>>>> don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but ultimately
>>>> probably not that important.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.
>>>>
>>>> 'Night all
>>>> Katja
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
>>>>> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time
>>>>> again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have
>>>>> greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have
>>>>> no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be
>>>>> alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that
>>>>> the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved
>>>>> about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>




From rick.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 16:40:44 2015
From: rick.edwards at gmail.com (Rick Edwards)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 16:40:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <CADeX7vxgM6ayHhfNQAMk85ZoUie4PU4Wva7QhLqy57H_54-NMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHx1AVZd+ZA9zb71NVRWQTjag2q2J1fYYDppUKnmQZOYqy=bKw@mail.gmail.com>

Just as an observation it was interesting to note that the sexist comment
from the original conversation was jumped upon but the derisory use of
"oiks" passed by completely unmolested, it would appear that equal rights
for oiks have some way to go :-)

From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Mon Mar  9 18:54:08 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2015 18:54:08 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54FDEC50.8080507@kdurrani.co.uk>

Thanks a lot for this email, Craig, and also Marc for the article. Yes, 
I see it pretty much the same way, I have lots of sterotypes too (and 
often look like an idiot). Acknowledging them is key.

Katja


On 09/03/15 16:16, Craig Francis wrote:
> Thanks Katja :-)
>
> I'm not sure if I can (or should) add anything else... other than agreeing there is a problem.
>
> Maybe the more people acknowledge the issue(s), and try to understand, we can improve (and potentially look like idiots in trying).
>
> I release prejudices and stereotypes exist for a reason (so our simple monkey brains can quickly make assumptions, and keep life simple)... but they cause so many problems.
>
> If we have an excellent programmer, who does exceedingly good work... does it matter where they happen to have been born, their age, gender, sex, height, skin colour, etc?
>
> For example... should we assume that if they are Indian they fall into the stereotypes often associated with "cheap off-shore developers"?
>
> If reading an email from someone you don't know, should we look at their name (or picture) and make assumptions before reading the content?
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2015, at 19:41, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> :)
>>
>> At some point we might get help from these 'people' https://medium.com/matter/why-it-s-almost-impossible-to-teach-a-robot-to-do-your-laundry-2a4a3efb3775 Will they manage not to produce lotf single socks I wonder?
>>
>> I have not paid that much attention to IWD, was reminded though that the "International" in it is quite important as in many countries women have to put up with much more than being associated with cleaning..
>>
>> Have to just post this one other thing that might help people who don't see the sexism https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce (which also has my first ever comment on Medium in it, which in that case is actually pro-man)
>>
>> But most of all, please watch this video, especially those of you who are parents to girls, but then I guess those who are fathers to boys should watch it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Katja
>>
>>
>> On 08/03/15 13:16, 2966710 . wrote:ic
>>> So I'm taking 5 minutes out of doing the family's laundry to post this.
>>>
>>> Like Katja I'm not really good at or enjoying this line of work. I
>>> would much prefer to be learning some new programming or API. Even
>>> just lazing about after a hard week. Perhaps get on with the long list
>>> of DIY tasks I now never seem to get around to doing :(
>>>
>>> So today in International Women's day
>>> http://www.internationalwomensday.com/ we get this news: "Washing
>>> instructions: Give this shirt to a woman. It's her job"
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31786562
>>>
>>> Wish me good luck with trying that eh?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 March 2015 at 20:11, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think that's
>>>> the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also always
>>>> supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly gender-specific
>>>> traits..
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes. Also
>>>> don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but ultimately
>>>> probably not that important.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.
>>>>
>>>> 'Night all
>>>> Katja
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
>>>>> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and time
>>>>> again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men and have
>>>>> greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I have
>>>>> no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to be
>>>>> alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could argue that
>>>>> the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit peeved
>>>>> about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>




From wyc.slingsby at propagatorgroup.com  Tue Mar 10 09:13:00 2015
From: wyc.slingsby at propagatorgroup.com (Wyc Slingsby)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:13:00 +0000
Subject: [_] Permanent Front-end and PHP developer
Message-ID: <C803FFAB-C063-419B-8842-FBD0093C9F52@propagatorgroup.com>

We?re currently looking for an experienced PHP developer with excellent full-stack skills in HTML5, CSS3, Sass,  Bootstrap, Grunt, Bower, Git, Vanilla Javascript, Jquery, RequireJS, AngularJS and cross-browser testing. Expereince in responsive essential. You would be joining a small, highly experienced and motivated team working on both product development and customer projects.

Please email me off-list with your CV and/or a link to your LinkedIn profile and portfolio.

No agencies.

wyc.slingsby at propagatorgroup.com <mailto:wyc.slingsby at propagatorgroup.com>

Propagator Ltd
Innovation Centre
Broad Quay
Bath BA1 1UD



From me at amias.net  Tue Mar 10 09:57:09 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:57:09 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <54FDEC50.8080507@kdurrani.co.uk>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <62940F45-0A3B-4369-BC97-5E2F881DA8A6@hiddedevries.nl>
 <CA+8arc1r-DQuu_XNpCnXu_6zp2vyVnr+zJ77VQn=0cw_fzLY6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XWK95kFJOZXFWYjAaRMscJ2KUjG0x3uSwJYMp_15WcBoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vwAQ-48E49PczFv7eox=GsebZ8Geixjq1dhSz-RZ5EmAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVY0UMAD7toFL_s91CKrVbGD3ab2dANDg3nRRe1woRKdyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeX7vz4_VxELBj6_ya_mZ2ynsk+4xvR5RsQKTnSuBdntEFqow@mail.gmail.com>
 <54F98A65.2070202@spodnet.net> <54F9EDB3.8080101@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CAHEt8Yc94Er0Efj65=r=RLnVTsNJV_+tRwepU=ihOSNcZ5_0YQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAA8aTznKFPREnJLk3H//034BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <54FAED71.2060404@kdurrani.co.uk> <1425737668814.71247@lewdewe.com>
 <54FB5B81.7070105@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <CACeWpzjAn+TjG-c5CG-Sz88EaSXvMzxyXv3GpqFmGCJvceoi2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <54FCA5FD.8070604@kdurrani.co.uk>
 <D1DACCD3-5330-4BB6-B3FE-062B18C94DCD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <54FDEC50.8080507@kdurrani.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XW0MH3UgPPKihMfeQMrYDveaM18i3465ce5R=FmVA5D2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello _,

While we have a tory government its still safe to pick on the oiks .

Also stereotypes are old hat , nowadays thanks to our sensationalist media
corporations we have  5.1 surround prejudice in 3D

Cheers
Amias

On 9 March 2015 at 18:54, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks a lot for this email, Craig, and also Marc for the article. Yes, I
> see it pretty much the same way, I have lots of sterotypes too (and often
> look like an idiot). Acknowledging them is key.
>
> Katja
>
>
>
> On 09/03/15 16:16, Craig Francis wrote:
>
>> Thanks Katja :-)
>>
>> I'm not sure if I can (or should) add anything else... other than
>> agreeing there is a problem.
>>
>> Maybe the more people acknowledge the issue(s), and try to understand, we
>> can improve (and potentially look like idiots in trying).
>>
>> I release prejudices and stereotypes exist for a reason (so our simple
>> monkey brains can quickly make assumptions, and keep life simple)... but
>> they cause so many problems.
>>
>> If we have an excellent programmer, who does exceedingly good work...
>> does it matter where they happen to have been born, their age, gender, sex,
>> height, skin colour, etc?
>>
>> For example... should we assume that if they are Indian they fall into
>> the stereotypes often associated with "cheap off-shore developers"?
>>
>> If reading an email from someone you don't know, should we look at their
>> name (or picture) and make assumptions before reading the content?
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 Mar 2015, at 19:41, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>  :)
>>>
>>> At some point we might get help from these 'people'
>>> https://medium.com/matter/why-it-s-almost-impossible-to-
>>> teach-a-robot-to-do-your-laundry-2a4a3efb3775 Will they manage not to
>>> produce lotf single socks I wonder?
>>>
>>> I have not paid that much attention to IWD, was reminded though that the
>>> "International" in it is quite important as in many countries women have to
>>> put up with much more than being associated with cleaning..
>>>
>>> Have to just post this one other thing that might help people who don't
>>> see the sexism https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-
>>> 595b90791cce (which also has my first ever comment on Medium in it,
>>> which in that case is actually pro-man)
>>>
>>> But most of all, please watch this video, especially those of you who
>>> are parents to girls, but then I guess those who are fathers to boys should
>>> watch it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Katja
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/03/15 13:16, 2966710 . wrote:ic
>>>
>>>> So I'm taking 5 minutes out of doing the family's laundry to post this.
>>>>
>>>> Like Katja I'm not really good at or enjoying this line of work. I
>>>> would much prefer to be learning some new programming or API. Even
>>>> just lazing about after a hard week. Perhaps get on with the long list
>>>> of DIY tasks I now never seem to get around to doing :(
>>>>
>>>> So today in International Women's day
>>>> http://www.internationalwomensday.com/ we get this news: "Washing
>>>> instructions: Give this shirt to a woman. It's her job"
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-31786562
>>>>
>>>> Wish me good luck with trying that eh?
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7 March 2015 at 20:11, Katja Durrani <mail at kdurrani.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, no, no. Not superior sex. I know you mean well, but I don't think
>>>>> that's
>>>>> the answer. Equal rights and recognition is quite enough. Also always
>>>>> supicious of evolution being used to explain supposedly gender-specific
>>>>> traits..
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, enough of this topic for me for now - too many rabbit holes.
>>>>> Also
>>>>> don't know if I expressed myself that well in second email, but
>>>>> ultimately
>>>>> probably not that important.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the replies, including off-list, really do appreciate them.
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Night all
>>>>> Katja
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/03/15 14:14, Erik Wallace wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for women's competence, let's face it studies have shown time and
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> again that women tend to perform better at a lot of tasks than men
>>>>>> and have
>>>>>> greater sensitivity in some of the five senses. Why that should be, I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> no idea - maybe it's due to evolution favouring a mother's ability to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> alert and protect a very young child - but technically you could
>>>>>> argue that
>>>>>> the female is the superior sex. As a man I can't help feeling a bit
>>>>>> peeved
>>>>>> about that but I don't dwell on it and just be happy with who I am.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From drew at designer-drew.com  Tue Mar 10 10:02:45 2015
From: drew at designer-drew.com (drew)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 10:02:45 +0000
Subject: [_] Freelance+ work wanted
Message-ID: <rcboam3p0ixah16jh5ox0lof.1425981765150@email.android.com>

Hi [_]
Any freelance Front-End or themer work in Bath/Bristol?

No permanent work. May consider contract with immediate start.


Off-list please

Drew Pearce
http://www.sulis-interactive.co.uk

From shane at mcewan.id.au  Tue Mar 10 16:38:59 2015
From: shane at mcewan.id.au (Shane McEwan)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:38:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
Message-ID: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>

<rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
stop!</rant>

Thank you.

Shane.





From carl at sargunar.com  Tue Mar 10 16:42:33 2015
From: carl at sargunar.com (Carl Sargunar)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:42:33 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>

Couldn't agree more - but, given we have control over our email addresses,
rather than all the validation code written for all websites, why not just
change your email?


cheers,

Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally chilled
out fella
07799 260527
@csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis> www.sargunar.com

If this email isn't intended for you, avert your eyes. Look out of the
window instead - it's much nicer out there anyway.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Shane McEwan <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:

> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> stop!</rant>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Shane.
>
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From matt at mattpass.com  Tue Mar 10 16:45:21 2015
From: matt at mattpass.com (Matt Pass)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:45:21 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>

Think you could have simplified this by just saying "Please web devs - 
do not attempt to validate email addresses...ever!"

I'd agree with Carl tho - you have caused yourself an ongoing problem 
having an email address containing a plus char?

Matt

On 10/03/2015 16:38, Shane McEwan wrote:
> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> stop!</rant>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Shane.
>
>
>
>



From phil at web2wire.com  Tue Mar 10 16:46:15 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:46:15 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <54FF1FD7.5050206@web2wire.com>

My favourite can't answer truthfully without re-adjusting reality is...

Q -  Enter name of first pet as security question
A - Rex
Answer is too short, please re-enter name of first pet etc etc

One site I went to had about 8 questions of which you had to pick 5. It 
was impossible to come up with non-fictional answers to that many 
questions that satisfied the other validation requirements.

Also things like get my goat

Q - Enter postcode without spaces

If the site is worried about spaces then just extract them from the 
answer! The same goes for trimming leading or trailing whitespace in 
general form fields, just delete it!

Phil

On 10/03/2015 16:38, Shane McEwan wrote:
> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> stop!</rant>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Shane.
>
>
>
>



From davehodg at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 16:46:43 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (David Hodgkinson)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:46:43 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>

Because myname+spamsite at domain.com <mailto:myname+spamsite at domain.com> lets me know who leaked
my email address to spammers.


> On 10 Mar 2015, at 16:42, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:
> 
> Couldn't agree more - but, given we have control over our email addresses,
> rather than all the validation code written for all websites, why not just
> change your email?
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally chilled
> out fella
> 07799 260527
> @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis> www.sargunar.com
> 
> If this email isn't intended for you, avert your eyes. Look out of the
> window instead - it's much nicer out there anyway.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Shane McEwan <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:
> 
>> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>> stop!</rant>
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Shane.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From shane at mcewan.id.au  Tue Mar 10 17:05:03 2015
From: shane at mcewan.id.au (Shane McEwan)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:05:03 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>

On 10/03/15 16:46, David Hodgkinson wrote:
> Because myname+spamsite at domain.com lets me know who leaked my email
> address to spammers.

This. I use the + to create custom E-Mail addresses when signing up to
sites so when the sell my E-Mail address to spammers or they get hacked
I can block the resulting spam.

It's possible comparethemarket.com (a recent E-Mail validation offender)
specifically reject the + for this reason.

Shane.





From oliver at watershed.co.uk  Tue Mar 10 16:47:23 2015
From: oliver at watershed.co.uk (Oliver Humpage)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 16:47:23 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AE67295B-6F17-4D52-BAF1-46799C258723@watershed.co.uk>


On 10 Mar 2015, at 16:42, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:

> Couldn't agree more - but, given we have control over our email addresses,
> rather than all the validation code written for all websites, why not just
> change your email?

Because if you have your.name at work.com, you can still use your.name+websitename at work.com to get email to come to you, but specify which website you used that email address on (useful for filtering, and for tracking spam, etc).

A few months ago even Apple changed their AppleID signup form to refuse plus signs, although they changed it back again about a month later.

Oliver.

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Tue Mar 10 17:17:06 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:17:06 -0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAABVSfm+QL/hIpagf1kLu+RUBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

My domain has a hyphen in it....... Sometimes have the same problems.

Mind you, the Scottish Power website proudly asks 'Please enter your
username (in lowercase)' WTF!!!!


Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Shane McEwan
Sent: 10 March 2015 17:05
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Dear website developers . . .

On 10/03/15 16:46, David Hodgkinson wrote:
> Because myname+spamsite at domain.com lets me know who leaked my email 
> address to spammers.

This. I use the + to create custom E-Mail addresses when signing up to sites
so when the sell my E-Mail address to spammers or they get hacked I can
block the resulting spam.

It's possible comparethemarket.com (a recent E-Mail validation offender)
specifically reject the + for this reason.

Shane.




--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9247 - Release Date: 03/07/15



From david at elliott.uk.com  Tue Mar 10 17:17:05 2015
From: david at elliott.uk.com (David Elliott)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:17:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au> 
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1556015408.20150310171705@elliott.uk.com>

Hi David,

On Tue, 10 Mar 2015, at 16:46:43 [which was on Tuesday at 16:46 where I live] you wrote:

> Because myname+spamsite at domain.com
> <mailto:myname+spamsite at domain.com> lets me know who leaked
> my email address to spammers.

and I use myname.spamsite at domain.com

:)


-- 
Cheers

David
mailto:david at elliott.uk.com



From carl at sargunar.com  Tue Mar 10 17:18:44 2015
From: carl at sargunar.com (Carl Sargunar)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:18:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting - you learn something new every day :)

Sounds like those pesky email marketers have gotten wise to your game -
maybe try aliases with your email instead of using plus ...

cheers,


> This. I use the + to create custom E-Mail addresses when signing up to
> sites so when the sell my E-Mail address to spammers or they get hacked
> I can block the resulting spam.
>
>

From me at amias.net  Tue Mar 10 17:24:33 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:24:33 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XXXKt_mTXvr75jqsCHsW923hdWe7DmO3EBCgm=jwSRmvw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello _ ,

I would just check it has an '@' and at least one '.' , with the @ not
being the first char and the dot not being the last.

Cheers
Amias


On 10 March 2015 at 17:18, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:

> Interesting - you learn something new every day :)
>
> Sounds like those pesky email marketers have gotten wise to your game -
> maybe try aliases with your email instead of using plus ...
>
> cheers,
>
>
> > This. I use the + to create custom E-Mail addresses when signing up to
> > sites so when the sell my E-Mail address to spammers or they get hacked
> > I can block the resulting spam.
> >
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From oliver at watershed.co.uk  Tue Mar 10 17:24:58 2015
From: oliver at watershed.co.uk (Oliver Humpage)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:24:58 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05666386-883C-4A56-9677-CD2856CE0E0A@watershed.co.uk>


On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:18, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:

> Sounds like those pesky email marketers have gotten wise to your game -
> maybe try aliases with your email instead of using plus ...

These days I just use a throwaway domain (?2.50/year for a .co.uk) and have a catchall to my inbox. Much simpler. But for some things, like per-user Apple IDs, the "+" was invaluable: when we had to switch to dots, I needed to edit a sendmail.cf to make them work... shudder.

Oliver.



From phil at web2wire.com  Tue Mar 10 17:30:06 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:30:06 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAMgU7XXXKt_mTXvr75jqsCHsW923hdWe7DmO3EBCgm=jwSRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XXXKt_mTXvr75jqsCHsW923hdWe7DmO3EBCgm=jwSRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54FF2A1E.4040805@web2wire.com>

This page (http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html) has a 
full perl regex for email addresses.

These are just the first few lines, I think it has over a hundred!

(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:(?:(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]
)+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|"(?:[^\"\r\\]|\\.|(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]))*"(?:(?:
\r\n)?[ \t])*)(?:\.(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(
?:\r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|"(?:[^\"\r\\]|\\.|(?:(?:\r\n)?[
\t]))*"(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*))*@(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\0
31]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*\
](?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*)(?:\.(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+
(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*\](?:
(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*))*|(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z
|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|"(?:[^\"\r\\]|\\.|(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]))*"(?:(?:\r\n)
?[ \t])*)*\<(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:@(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\
r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*\](?:(?:\r\n)?[
  \t])*)(?:\.(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)
?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*\](?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]
)*))*(?:,@(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[
  \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*\](?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*
)(?:\.(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]
)+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*\](?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*))*)
...


Phil

On 10/03/2015 17:24, Amias Channer wrote:
> Hello _ ,
>
> I would just check it has an '@' and at least one '.' , with the @ not
> being the first char and the dot not being the last.
>
> Cheers
> Amias
>
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 17:18, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:
>
>> Interesting - you learn something new every day :)
>>
>> Sounds like those pesky email marketers have gotten wise to your game -
>> maybe try aliases with your email instead of using plus ...
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>>> This. I use the + to create custom E-Mail addresses when signing up to
>>> sites so when the sell my E-Mail address to spammers or they get hacked
>>> I can block the resulting spam.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>



From james at nuvola.co.uk  Tue Mar 10 17:32:23 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:32:23 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <54FF2AA7.1090306@nuvola.co.uk>

You could also set up a catch-all email address on a subdomain (pretty 
sure 1&1 who I use for email and domains allows this):
*@mailinglists.domain.com

Then you can just sign up with different addresses for each list
comparethemarket at mailinglists.domain.com
etc

Hmm might try this myself

On 10/03/15 17:05, Shane McEwan wrote:
> On 10/03/15 16:46, David Hodgkinson wrote:
>> Because myname+spamsite at domain.com lets me know who leaked my email
>> address to spammers.
> This. I use the + to create custom E-Mail addresses when signing up to
> sites so when the sell my E-Mail address to spammers or they get hacked
> I can block the resulting spam.
>
> It's possible comparethemarket.com (a recent E-Mail validation offender)
> specifically reject the + for this reason.
>
> Shane.
>



From oliver at watershed.co.uk  Tue Mar 10 17:33:53 2015
From: oliver at watershed.co.uk (Oliver Humpage)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:33:53 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF2A1E.4040805@web2wire.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J_JcU1HVtE7vpVa_BC3H5Jjkps6De_Ln9T5SMkSO9A9vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1D1EA2E0-2030-4ED4-9A8A-2DCC2642F53C@gmail.com>
 <54FF243F.3070900@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAFRL4J-xpxmHkGKddfqBjiV3LxzqMZxcGpgSYQ1PO0LajF_wXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XXXKt_mTXvr75jqsCHsW923hdWe7DmO3EBCgm=jwSRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54FF2A1E.4040805@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <09486AC9-EDB0-4A49-AF22-11DC92A53AFA@watershed.co.uk>


On 10 Mar 2015, at 17:30, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:

> This page (http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html) has a full perl regex for email addresses.

To be fair, that's for email headers, e.g.

oliver at watershed.co.uk
Oliver Humpage <oliver at watershed.co.uk>

etc

Don't need one that long for a plain email address.

Oliver.

From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Tue Mar 10 17:20:13 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 17:20:13 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <DD7CD0BC-C1CD-48D6-9807-9442E50E388A@ministryotech.co.uk>

I truly hate this and I?ve argued vehemently against it when requirements 
for it have come my way.

Real world email validation should be?

{something}@{something}

The @ symbol with something either side is all that is technically 
required I believe.




On 10/03/2015 16:38, "Shane McEwan" <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:

><rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>stop!</rant>
>
>Thank you.
>
>Shane.
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>underscore_ list info/archive -> 
>http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From gothick at gothick.org.uk  Tue Mar 10 20:02:45 2015
From: gothick at gothick.org.uk (Matt Gibson)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 20:02:45 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1FD7.5050206@web2wire.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au> <54FF1FD7.5050206@web2wire.com>
Message-ID: <36C93C06-AD35-4ADA-AE14-8160B0B228AC@gothick.org.uk>

On 10 Mar 2015, at 16:46, Philip Coombes <phil at web2wire.com> wrote:
> 
> My favourite can't answer truthfully without re-adjusting reality is...
> 
> Q -  Enter name of first pet as security question
> A - Rex
> Answer is too short, please re-enter name of first pet etc etc
> 
> One site I went to had about 8 questions of which you had to pick 5. It was impossible to come up with non-fictional answers to that many questions that satisfied the other validation requirements.

Card Protection Plan, by any chance? I think I recognise that rant, having made it myself :) In the end I took their alternative route for updating my details, which was to post them a form with all the card numbers written on it in biro. So, *that* was clearly improving security...

> Also things like get my goat
> 
> Q - Enter postcode without spaces

And card numbers. If you?re not clever enough to strip spaces from a number, can I really trust you with my credit card details?

M



From Paddy at spanuk.org.uk  Wed Mar 11 03:22:36 2015
From: Paddy at spanuk.org.uk (Paddy Uglow)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 03:22:36 +0000
Subject: [_] Another Up For Grabs: 7" AV video monitor,
 and wanted: small HDMI screen
Message-ID: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CECF8B@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>

I'd been *so* clever. Instead of paying ?400 for a video monitor for my digital SLR, I'd got an old in-car DVD screen instead for ?20. The 800px wide display was great for helping with manual focus, I tested the camera output and everything...
BUT I found out too late that my camera doesn't output AV whilst recording! :-(

SO, is anyone interested in it. Free, or for a donation: up to you.

Uses could be CCTV monitor, camera monitor for cameras that CAN output AV while filming, baby monitor, doorstep viewer, in-car reversing camera, DVD monitor, thing for hacking for interesting inventions....

It's a 7" screen with brightness and volume knobs. DIN or AV (3 phono) inputs. It appears to be black and white using my camera output - not sure if it'll do colour. The specs say 800px wide. There's an input selector switch and a wide / 4x3 button and a screw-mount and strap/elastic. Two headphone outputs.
There's no PSU, but my Maplin multi PSU worked fine on 9v setting.

And does anyone have a 7" (or smaller) HDMI screen up for grabs for a bargain price?

Thanks
- Paddy, CreativeMedia.org.uk

From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 11 07:25:18 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 07:25:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Another Up For Grabs: 7" AV video monitor,
 and wanted: small HDMI screen
In-Reply-To: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CECF8B@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CECF8B@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
Message-ID: <1787507706.3462051.1426058718446.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

you could have a look at olimex, also odroid
?All the best

Adam 

     On Wednesday, 11 March 2015, 4:28, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
   

 I'd been *so* clever. Instead of paying ?400 for a video monitor for my digital SLR, I'd got an old in-car DVD screen instead for ?20. The 800px wide display was great for helping with manual focus, I tested the camera output and everything...
BUT I found out too late that my camera doesn't output AV whilst recording! :-(

SO, is anyone interested in it. Free, or for a donation: up to you.

Uses could be CCTV monitor, camera monitor for cameras that CAN output AV while filming, baby monitor, doorstep viewer, in-car reversing camera, DVD monitor, thing for hacking for interesting inventions....

It's a 7" screen with brightness and volume knobs. DIN or AV (3 phono) inputs. It appears to be black and white using my camera output - not sure if it'll do colour. The specs say 800px wide. There's an input selector switch and a wide / 4x3 button and a screw-mount and strap/elastic. Two headphone outputs.
There's no PSU, but my Maplin multi PSU worked fine on 9v setting.

And does anyone have a 7" (or smaller) HDMI screen up for grabs for a bargain price?

Thanks
- Paddy, CreativeMedia.org.uk
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

   

From fiznool at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 08:24:33 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 08:24:33 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9aK5P_743qyFKWEhWbrW0qx30ET66J5PGfZ=85-Qd-JwA@mail.gmail.com>

I read somewhere that the only foolproof way to validate email addresses is
to send an email with a one-time unique link which, when clicked, will
validate the account. This has the bonus of ensuring the user owns the
email address, too.
On 10 Mar 2015 16:39, "Shane McEwan" <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:

> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> stop!</rant>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Shane.
>
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From christopher at mckirgan.com  Wed Mar 11 09:15:11 2015
From: christopher at mckirgan.com (Christopher Mckirgan)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:15:11 +0000
Subject: [_] Subject: Re:  Dear website developers . . .
Message-ID: <CAHsgM6N=8R5Dss-XHthZJiqdX2hFvU7Zz1vW24htBKScR3VPTQ@mail.gmail.com>

RTFM :)
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322#section-3.4.1
...or Wikipedia has a more readable article on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address

Practically speaking, what I tend to do is borrow the code from a CMS's
source code. Wordpress does an okay job, so thats a good place to start:
https://core.trac.wordpress.org/browser/tags/4.1.1/src/wp-includes/formatting.php#L2115

- Christopher McKirgan

From thpushman at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 09:30:42 2015
From: thpushman at gmail.com (Tim Pushman)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:30:42 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <DD7CD0BC-C1CD-48D6-9807-9442E50E388A@ministryotech.co.uk>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <DD7CD0BC-C1CD-48D6-9807-9442E50E388A@ministryotech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHmnKdk-JdLguk_QjPnJqQ_ABM3rimEK08zK5hV2jkwzCoq-kw@mail.gmail.com>

"Real world validation" serves two purposes:
1. To check that something resembles an email address. But if it's wrong
it's their problem, not yours. {something}@{something} serves this purpose.
2. To check that it is not the client making a typo, in which case you want
to help them get it right. A more extended regex is needed.

But maybe the second case shouldn't be insisted on, if they really do want
to enter something unusual let them, just with a warning "that doesn't look
right, are you sure?".

The situation with the '+' is a little different as most MTA will treat
what is before the '+' as being the email address, and what is after as a
temporary addition, which makes it ideal for sign up forms where you want
to track the usage of the email address. So when I use '
myname+dodgy at domain.com' I only need to have the 'myname at domain.com'
existing, the '+dodgy' bit can vary.


On 10 March 2015 at 17:20, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:

> I truly hate this and I?ve argued vehemently against it when requirements
> for it have come my way.
>
> Real world email validation should be?
>
> {something}@{something}
>
> The @ symbol with something either side is all that is technically
> required I believe.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/03/2015 16:38, "Shane McEwan" <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:
>
> ><rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> >please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> >addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> >and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> >stop!</rant>
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >Shane.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From martin at spodnet.net  Wed Mar 11 09:39:24 2015
From: martin at spodnet.net (Martin Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:39:24 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9aK5P_743qyFKWEhWbrW0qx30ET66J5PGfZ=85-Qd-JwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAER4s9aK5P_743qyFKWEhWbrW0qx30ET66J5PGfZ=85-Qd-JwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55000D4C.2020409@spodnet.net>

I MX lookup (I don't bother with broken systems where they expect me to 
deliver using A records), no MX record, show error, if they want to put 
random stuff at the beginning, that's the user choice. The vast majority 
of users will put something valid there, and with browser autofill or 
predictive suggestion on mobiles, usually it's correct to start with.

On 11/03/2015 08:24, Tom Spencer wrote:
> I read somewhere that the only foolproof way to validate email addresses is
> to send an email with a one-time unique link which, when clicked, will
> validate the account. This has the bonus of ensuring the user owns the
> email address, too.
> On 10 Mar 2015 16:39, "Shane McEwan" <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:
>
>> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>> stop!</rant>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Shane.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 09:49:29 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:49:29 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
	<54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>

Carl and Matt,

It is really useful to do something like this with a gmail account.

username+something_unique at gmail.com
eg fred.flintstone+potential_spammer_company at gmail.com

So one can easily filter mail and identify who may have passed on your
details to a spamming list.

EDF allowed me to do that when signing up, how ever there email
verification system wouldn't accept it so that was even worse as the
account had an email but it would not let me verify so it was catch
22.

So +100 for Shane's rant

Steve

On 10 March 2015 at 16:45, Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:
> Think you could have simplified this by just saying "Please web devs - do
> not attempt to validate email addresses...ever!"
>
> I'd agree with Carl tho - you have caused yourself an ongoing problem having
> an email address containing a plus char?
>
> Matt
>
>
> On 10/03/2015 16:38, Shane McEwan wrote:
>>
>> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>> stop!</rant>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Shane.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From me at amias.net  Wed Mar 11 09:58:07 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:58:07 +0000
Subject: [_] Subject: Re: Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAHsgM6N=8R5Dss-XHthZJiqdX2hFvU7Zz1vW24htBKScR3VPTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHsgM6N=8R5Dss-XHthZJiqdX2hFvU7Zz1vW24htBKScR3VPTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XXex4CXSXoWA_xFgT5Gntquy8rSapRkFgDfd3-SRt3ogw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Christopher,

If you had R'd TFM a little harder you would have noticed that :
1. That is the RFC for email headers , not addresses
2. That RFC has been superseeded by http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6854

This is why its best to keep it simple , stuff gets updated.

FWIW that wordpress code looks good in that it doesn't do much more than
check for an @ and . but explains very clearly what it is doing and why ,
its almost the exact opposite of the line noise a lot of people use.
Maybe im just nostalgic for those brackets and semi colons.

Cheers
Amias



On 11 March 2015 at 09:15, Christopher Mckirgan <christopher at mckirgan.com>
wrote:

> RTFM :)
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322#section-3.4.1
> ...or Wikipedia has a more readable article on the subject:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address
>
> Practically speaking, what I tend to do is borrow the code from a CMS's
> source code. Wordpress does an okay job, so thats a good place to start:
>
> https://core.trac.wordpress.org/browser/tags/4.1.1/src/wp-includes/formatting.php#L2115
>
> - Christopher McKirgan
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From martin at spodnet.net  Wed Mar 11 10:00:10 2015
From: martin at spodnet.net (Martin Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:00:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>	<54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
 <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5500122A.1060900@spodnet.net>

As a marketeer (spammer), why wouldn't I just run a regex over the 
emails removing the part after + ?

I know some don't but it's trivial to do.

About 15 years ago, I used to use a wildcard on my domain, this was 
great, just put whatever local part in, I stopped using this when 
spammers started sending emails <any name under the sun>@domain.com, so 
you get a lot of bounces.

I then switched to having the aliases setup, 300 odd aliases later, it 
becomes unmanageable to create new ones each time, and to the manage the 
list itself.

I now simply have 1 email address and a decent spam filter. I rarely see 
a spam email now.

Martin

On 11/03/2015 09:49, 2966710 . wrote:
> Carl and Matt,
>
> It is really useful to do something like this with a gmail account.
>
> username+something_unique at gmail.com
> eg fred.flintstone+potential_spammer_company at gmail.com
>
> So one can easily filter mail and identify who may have passed on your
> details to a spamming list.
>
> EDF allowed me to do that when signing up, how ever there email
> verification system wouldn't accept it so that was even worse as the
> account had an email but it would not let me verify so it was catch
> 22.
>
> So +100 for Shane's rant
>
> Steve
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 16:45, Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:
>> Think you could have simplified this by just saying "Please web devs - do
>> not attempt to validate email addresses...ever!"
>>
>> I'd agree with Carl tho - you have caused yourself an ongoing problem having
>> an email address containing a plus char?
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On 10/03/2015 16:38, Shane McEwan wrote:
>>>
>>> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>>> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>>> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>>> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>>> stop!</rant>
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Shane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



From damian.webber at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 10:01:35 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:01:35 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAHmnKdk-JdLguk_QjPnJqQ_ABM3rimEK08zK5hV2jkwzCoq-kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
 <DD7CD0BC-C1CD-48D6-9807-9442E50E388A@ministryotech.co.uk>
 <CAHmnKdk-JdLguk_QjPnJqQ_ABM3rimEK08zK5hV2jkwzCoq-kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F2A9AE6C-2C19-4F35-9D2E-9424C37B1CC0@gmail.com>

Doesn't google allow you to use the plus sign to categorise emails. My email address is damian.webber at gmail.com but also damianwebber at gmail.com works as google ignores the . I can also use suffixes like damian.webber+work or +spam and gmail categorises the emails for me automatically

> On 11 Mar 2015, at 09:30, Tim Pushman <thpushman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> "Real world validation" serves two purposes:
> 1. To check that something resembles an email address. But if it's wrong
> it's their problem, not yours. {something}@{something} serves this purpose.
> 2. To check that it is not the client making a typo, in which case you want
> to help them get it right. A more extended regex is needed.
> 
> But maybe the second case shouldn't be insisted on, if they really do want
> to enter something unusual let them, just with a warning "that doesn't look
> right, are you sure?".
> 
> The situation with the '+' is a little different as most MTA will treat
> what is before the '+' as being the email address, and what is after as a
> temporary addition, which makes it ideal for sign up forms where you want
> to track the usage of the email address. So when I use '
> myname+dodgy at domain.com' I only need to have the 'myname at domain.com'
> existing, the '+dodgy' bit can vary.
> 
> 
>> On 10 March 2015 at 17:20, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I truly hate this and I?ve argued vehemently against it when requirements
>> for it have come my way.
>> 
>> Real world email validation should be?
>> 
>> {something}@{something}
>> 
>> The @ symbol with something either side is all that is technically
>> required I believe.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/03/2015 16:38, "Shane McEwan" <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:
>>> 
>>> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>>> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>>> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>>> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>>> stop!</rant>
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> Shane.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From matt at mattpass.com  Wed Mar 11 10:04:12 2015
From: matt at mattpass.com (Matt Pass)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:04:12 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>	<54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
 <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5500131C.20406@mattpass.com>

Yes, being able to identify spam with some kind of marker is a good idea.

However, using the + character as a marker, amongst many others, would 
be a poor choice for that marker. It obviously trips up systems where a 
dev has (foolishly) tried to write something to validate email addresses.

You can't change the world, but can choose your email address, to make 
your life simpler. Think the marker thing is a good idea - but why not 
use a succession of more accepted characters, such as a period...

username...something_unique at gmail.com
fred.flintstone...potential_spammer_company at gmail.com

...more likely to be accepted?

Matt

On 11/03/2015 09:49, 2966710 . wrote:
> Carl and Matt,
>
> It is really useful to do something like this with a gmail account.
>
> username+something_unique at gmail.com
> eg fred.flintstone+potential_spammer_company at gmail.com
>
> So one can easily filter mail and identify who may have passed on your
> details to a spamming list.
>
> EDF allowed me to do that when signing up, how ever there email
> verification system wouldn't accept it so that was even worse as the
> account had an email but it would not let me verify so it was catch
> 22.
>
> So +100 for Shane's rant
>
> Steve
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 16:45, Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:
>> Think you could have simplified this by just saying "Please web devs - do
>> not attempt to validate email addresses...ever!"
>>
>> I'd agree with Carl tho - you have caused yourself an ongoing problem having
>> an email address containing a plus char?
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On 10/03/2015 16:38, Shane McEwan wrote:
>>> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
>>> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
>>> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
>>> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
>>> stop!</rant>
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Shane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 10:39:53 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:39:53 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <5500131C.20406@mattpass.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au> <54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
 <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5500131C.20406@mattpass.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpziG=Na_m9ShhR3e37XK3zQPfnPy-bM0BjWhLLGsQVTenQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 March 2015 at 10:04, Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:
> Yes, being able to identify spam with some kind of marker is a good idea.
>
> However, using the + character as a marker, amongst many others, would be a
> poor choice for that marker. It obviously trips up systems where a dev has
> (foolishly) tried to write something to validate email addresses.
>
> You can't change the world, but can choose your email address, to make your
> life simpler. Think the marker thing is a good idea - but why not use a
> succession of more accepted characters, such as a period...
>
> username...something_unique at gmail.com
> fred.flintstone...potential_spammer_company at gmail.com
>
> ...more likely to be accepted?

Well I read about this Gmail trick and thought that would be useful,
it works with Google Apps Domains too. It is useful and if a site
disallows it its annoying. However having got into the catch 22
situation twice now I've almost stopped using it, which is a shame.

However don't always jump to blame the developer, often there are
teams of people involved, deadlines and "management" being pragmatic
which results in a sub optimal result being delivered.

Steve


From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Wed Mar 11 10:49:45 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:49:45 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <20271495-9B63-481C-8D3B-F6E238B61D6E@hiddedevries.nl>

Now we?re on it, phone numbers! Mine is 11 chars, sometimes gets rejected by validation that expects max 10 digits.

On 10 Mar 2015, at 16:38, Shane McEwan <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:

> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> stop!</rant>
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Shane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From matt at mattpass.com  Wed Mar 11 10:46:05 2015
From: matt at mattpass.com (Matt Pass)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 10:46:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpziG=Na_m9ShhR3e37XK3zQPfnPy-bM0BjWhLLGsQVTenQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au> <54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
 <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5500131C.20406@mattpass.com>
 <CACeWpziG=Na_m9ShhR3e37XK3zQPfnPy-bM0BjWhLLGsQVTenQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55001CED.6080509@mattpass.com>

Yeah, seems useful for use within Gmail etc - but as you say it's catch 
22 on it's usage.

LOL - also agree on "don't blame the developer" mantra. I'm a dev too 
and it's never my fault either! ;-)

Matt

On 11/03/2015 10:39, 2966710 . wrote:
> On 11 March 2015 at 10:04, Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:
>> Yes, being able to identify spam with some kind of marker is a good idea.
>>
>> However, using the + character as a marker, amongst many others, would be a
>> poor choice for that marker. It obviously trips up systems where a dev has
>> (foolishly) tried to write something to validate email addresses.
>>
>> You can't change the world, but can choose your email address, to make your
>> life simpler. Think the marker thing is a good idea - but why not use a
>> succession of more accepted characters, such as a period...
>>
>> username...something_unique at gmail.com
>> fred.flintstone...potential_spammer_company at gmail.com
>>
>> ...more likely to be accepted?
> Well I read about this Gmail trick and thought that would be useful,
> it works with Google Apps Domains too. It is useful and if a site
> disallows it its annoying. However having got into the catch 22
> situation twice now I've almost stopped using it, which is a shame.
>
> However don't always jump to blame the developer, often there are
> teams of people involved, deadlines and "management" being pragmatic
> which results in a sub optimal result being delivered.
>
> Steve
>



From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 12:05:16 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:05:16 +0000
Subject: [_] Short PHP Contract in Bath
Message-ID: <125eed3c6dab40d2962cc231d0ead129@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

Hello

Is anyone free for a brief PHP contract in Bath? Need to know a bit about Linux servers too and the ability to diagnose and resolve problems. Initially just 1 week of work but the client has a habit of renewals.

Do the usual.

Cheers

Stewart


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 12:19:28 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:19:28 +0000
Subject: [_] Scala or Clojure Developer roles in Bristol
Message-ID: <02dd663c96494741bff576a3b3e20c5a@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

Sorry, it's not spam day, it's just a coincidence.

We have a client in central Bristol seeking a number of Scala or Clojure Developers to join them on a permanent basis. These are significant opportunities that offer above market rate salary, bonus and benefits packages. Java Developers who are interested in cross training will also be considered.

Reply off list if you'd like to know more.

Thanks

Stewart

PS - No more now, I promise.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 12:20:35 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:20:35 +0000
Subject: [_] Bath Ruby Conference - 13th March
In-Reply-To: <CAGobHETMoWHHFLHy_ZOs4riUgcQE=KviuTQo1C=2=GVR_FOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <069e4d6a95274cf4ab0b03ed9f679637@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CAGobHETMoWHHFLHy_ZOs4riUgcQE=KviuTQo1C=2=GVR_FOdaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9e4b8176889e4107a7017c1f7cc3cd79@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>


> We ran a competition to give one away. The competition is closed now but if you don't get any takers I'm sure we can pull another winner for you to pass it along to?

Thanks Tom, this sounds like a good idea. Please go ahead.

Cheers

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________


From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Wed Mar 11 13:08:31 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:08:31 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <5500122A.1060900@spodnet.net>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au> <54FF1FA1.4090407@mattpass.com>
 <CACeWpzhH1tPEswJ6+RV-JaMzH46jjHG38a=97CRft85y2XDN7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5500122A.1060900@spodnet.net>
Message-ID: <e2c54ed7-69aa-4b10-9fcd-2cf3180a9d13@email.android.com>

On 11 March 2015 10:00:10 GMT, Martin Wheatley <martin at spodnet.net> wrote:
>As a marketeer (spammer), why wouldn't I just run a regex over the 
>emails removing the part after + ?

Yes. This is why using the bit after + for approval keys is better than only 
using the + for dodgy sites. Whitelist not blacklist. Stuff without the + or 
with an approval key that's been lost to spammers doesn't get into inbox.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


From fanstarters at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 14:23:32 2015
From: fanstarters at gmail.com (Karl McClelland)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 14:23:32 +0000
Subject: [_] Dear website developers . . .
In-Reply-To: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
References: <54FF1E23.8000800@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAGV4EVyRciu-yDDrLqJGpZXM8MGueLW8DKqgYHaqUnSkh421pg@mail.gmail.com>

Ha ha
On 10 Mar 2015 16:39, "Shane McEwan" <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:

> <rant>When you come to writing code to validate an E-Mail address field
> please be advised that the plus sign (+) is a valid character in E-Mail
> addresses. In fact, nearly every character is valid in E-Mail addresses
> and it's almost a certainty that your validation code is WRONG! Please
> stop!</rant>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Shane.
>
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From paul at mediagrand.co.uk  Wed Mar 11 16:24:13 2015
From: paul at mediagrand.co.uk (Paul)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:24:13 +0000
Subject: [_] PHP Zend Framework Contract for Bath company
In-Reply-To: <125eed3c6dab40d2962cc231d0ead129@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <125eed3c6dab40d2962cc231d0ead129@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <55006C2D.8040101@mediagrand.co.uk>

Hello,

We have a 4 year old CMS built on the Zend Framwork that is need of some 
updates. Is anyone available to take this on over the next few weeks?

Thanks,

Paul


From ejdomreg at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 09:11:38 2015
From: ejdomreg at gmail.com (Edward Johns)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:11:38 +0000
Subject: [_] Bristol "Smart City"
Message-ID: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Spotted this news item yesterday:

http://www.techworld.com/operating-systems/bristol-could-be-smartest-city-of-them-all-3601205/

I must have been under a rock for a while as it's the first I've heard
about this. Does anybody have an inside track? Is it as exciting as it
sounds?

Cheers,
Ed.

From matt at mattpass.com  Thu Mar 12 09:17:44 2015
From: matt at mattpass.com (Matt Pass)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:17:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Bristol "Smart City"
In-Reply-To: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <550159B8.4020702@mattpass.com>

Awesome! Well done Bristol.

Does that mean the buses might start running ontime one day? ;-)

Matt

On 12/03/2015 09:11, Edward Johns wrote:
> Hi,
> Spotted this news item yesterday:
>
> http://www.techworld.com/operating-systems/bristol-could-be-smartest-city-of-them-all-3601205/
>
> I must have been under a rock for a while as it's the first I've heard
> about this. Does anybody have an inside track? Is it as exciting as it
> sounds?
>
> Cheers,
> Ed.



From nigel.legg at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 09:30:24 2015
From: nigel.legg at gmail.com (Nigel Legg)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:30:24 +0000
Subject: [_] Bristol "Smart City"
In-Reply-To: <550159B8.4020702@mattpass.com>
References: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <550159B8.4020702@mattpass.com>
Message-ID: <CADeX7vxBYx41SYDnKpVhL=asFJKeRq7J4x8Y09fZE4+1xZhsgw@mail.gmail.com>

The launch event for the Connected Bristol program was on Tuesday.  As a
first step they are rolling out gigabit broadband - I believe it will
connect University of Bristol, UWE, Watershed, City Hall, Engine Shed (?)
and At Bristol (I think... )  There is talk of a supercomputer being
connected to the planetarium for "real time" data visualisations...

Cheers, Nigel
07914 740972


On 12 March 2015 at 09:17, Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:

> Awesome! Well done Bristol.
>
> Does that mean the buses might start running ontime one day? ;-)
>
> Matt
>
>
> On 12/03/2015 09:11, Edward Johns wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Spotted this news item yesterday:
>>
>> http://www.techworld.com/operating-systems/bristol-
>> could-be-smartest-city-of-them-all-3601205/
>>
>> I must have been under a rock for a while as it's the first I've heard
>> about this. Does anybody have an inside track? Is it as exciting as it
>> sounds?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ed.
>>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From ejdomreg at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 09:45:46 2015
From: ejdomreg at gmail.com (Edward Johns)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:45:46 +0000
Subject: [_] Bristol "Smart City"
References: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <550159B8.4020702@mattpass.com>
Message-ID: <CAKX26HfiuuFVzRsKXFXjVPkB31y=bdrK3558gZ3B3Bf=NepfsQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think it just means we'll all know how late they are!

On Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:18 Matt Pass <matt at mattpass.com> wrote:

> Awesome! Well done Bristol.
>
> Does that mean the buses might start running ontime one day? ;-)
>
> Matt
>
> On 12/03/2015 09:11, Edward Johns wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Spotted this news item yesterday:
> >
> > http://www.techworld.com/operating-systems/bristol-
> could-be-smartest-city-of-them-all-3601205/
> >
> > I must have been under a rock for a while as it's the first I've heard
> > about this. Does anybody have an inside track? Is it as exciting as it
> > sounds?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ed.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From oliver at watershed.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 09:48:40 2015
From: oliver at watershed.co.uk (Oliver Humpage)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:48:40 +0000
Subject: [_] Bristol "Smart City"
In-Reply-To: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKX26HcwQbH4d+pM2sVJqLOhQRKi1yG-FxQx2QWHik-B8tZaTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98E44738-8C71-4974-B9DB-4514C9C3D7A4@watershed.co.uk>


On 12 Mar 2015, at 09:11, Edward Johns <ejdomreg at gmail.com> wrote:

> I must have been under a rock for a while as it's the first I've heard
> about this. Does anybody have an inside track? Is it as exciting as it
> sounds?

We've got a rack of equipment that's been installed here - a very nice Polatis optical switch plus a big 10Gb fibre switch and some servers, all SDN capable. Basically we can punt dozens of 10Gb data streams around the various nodes, plus I think BIO (Bristol Is Open) links out to other places like Amsterdam at high speeds.

There are, as far as I can tell, 3 main parts to BIO:

1. The massive network between UoB (including its supercomputer), @Bristol, Engine Shed and here
2. A large sensor network
3. Clusters of lamppost wifi along the Brunel mile

The idea being that research projects can combine whatever of those resources they need to do something interesting.

One of our big use cases is the ability to receive 4k/60fps streams live across the network, from anywhere that's connected up to BIO. I know also that some studio residents have got very excited at the prospect of linking to UoB at 10Gb+, not just to link to the supercomputer but to all kinds of other research projects up there.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out, and how the network can be used. It's certainly a big test of several manufacturers' equipment (there's a proper partnership with NEC, for instance) as well as a test of what we can do with it.

However, atm it's not for transit to the internet, it's just an internal research network. Unrelated to BIO, Watershed is now a member of LINX and RIPE, and we're getting a 1Gb peering connection up to the new LINX IX in Cardiff soon (with 100Mb symmetric transit). You may notice our wifi getting even better at that point :)

Oliver.



From mail at azulinho.com  Thu Mar 12 10:49:13 2015
From: mail at azulinho.com (Azul)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 10:49:13 +0000
Subject: [_] Ruby is having a Bath
Message-ID: <CAMP=owjjNJyo=HC4bWn9f8qNN1XPZ02EYrrwsvhimeDGmUzU3w@mail.gmail.com>

Hey gang,

I can't attend this conference tomorrow,
who wants my ticket ?

- razzle fazzle rock

From oliward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 12:03:15 2015
From: oliward at gmail.com (Oli Ward)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:03:15 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
Message-ID: <CAD+DkpR4kVHrYwo9tJEr93yyy59PL5AVxuOPjK6T_zQDC=Eymw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi 'scorers,

we're running an AngularJS course in Bristol on Friday 10th April.

Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their websites.

You can sign up and find full details here:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/angularjs-workshop-tickets-15993393671

We'd also love to know about any other courses people would like to see us
run.

Thanks

Oli Ward

w: developme.training

From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 12:15:40 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:15:40 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpR4kVHrYwo9tJEr93yyy59PL5AVxuOPjK6T_zQDC=Eymw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpR4kVHrYwo9tJEr93yyy59PL5AVxuOPjK6T_zQDC=Eymw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <178DCB7D-A6CE-483D-9616-E4987CA8CB46@craigfrancis.co.uk>

On 12 Mar 2015, at 12:03, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their websites.



Is that Angular 1 or 2...


/me runs :-)



From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 12:18:48 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:18:48 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <178DCB7D-A6CE-483D-9616-E4987CA8CB46@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <CAD+DkpR4kVHrYwo9tJEr93yyy59PL5AVxuOPjK6T_zQDC=Eymw@mail.gmail.com>
 <178DCB7D-A6CE-483D-9616-E4987CA8CB46@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB479C34E353050F1449377F9E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I was going to ask the same question....

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Craig Francis
Sent: 12 March 2015 12:16
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April

On 12 Mar 2015, at 12:03, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many 
> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their websites.



Is that Angular 1 or 2...


/me runs :-)


--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From oliward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 13:34:17 2015
From: oliward at gmail.com (Oli Ward)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:34:17 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
Message-ID: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>

>> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
>> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their
websites.

> Is that Angular 1 or 2...
> /me runs :-)

Craig & Keith, good spot.

This will be Angular 1.

Oli Ward

w: developme.training

From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 14:21:58 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:21:58 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Oli Ward
Sent: 12 March 2015 13:34
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April

>> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many 
>> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their
websites.

> Is that Angular 1 or 2...
> /me runs :-)

Craig & Keith, good spot.

This will be Angular 1.

Oli Ward

w: developme.training
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 14:41:16 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:41:16 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9C80E285-C4D5-4D8D-A4AB-9FF5ECE4ACAA@craigfrancis.co.uk>

On 12 Mar 2015, at 14:21, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
> The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?


Well, Google are building it... so I'm sure it's in good hands:

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/map_of_the_week/2013/03/google_reader_joins_graveyard_of_dead_google_products.html

... but seriously, it really depends on the project :-)

I certainly wouldn't use it to make a typical website, but I might consider it for some kind of web-app type thing... one that does not need to be indexed by Google, can rely on JavaScript to always be working perfectly, only supporting the latest browsers, with a server side API that can handle the security issues, and with plenty of time spent checking for accessibility and in browser performance problems.

Craig

From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Thu Mar 12 15:03:49 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:03:49 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <9C80E285-C4D5-4D8D-A4AB-9FF5ECE4ACAA@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C80E285-C4D5-4D8D-A4AB-9FF5ECE4ACAA@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5E64ABB8-38E0-4BB6-9CFB-6AE97011632F@hiddedevries.nl>

Agreed with Craig. There?s quite a lot of things to look at if you want to do Angular well. Slightly off topic, interesting analysis of Angular: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/01/the_problem_wit.html and the follow-up http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/01/angular_and_tem.html

On 12 Mar 2015, at 14:41, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> On 12 Mar 2015, at 14:21, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
>> The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?
> 
> 
> Well, Google are building it... so I'm sure it's in good hands:
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/map_of_the_week/2013/03/google_reader_joins_graveyard_of_dead_google_products.html
> 
> ... but seriously, it really depends on the project :-)
> 
> I certainly wouldn't use it to make a typical website, but I might consider it for some kind of web-app type thing... one that does not need to be indexed by Google, can rely on JavaScript to always be working perfectly, only supporting the latest browsers, with a server side API that can handle the security issues, and with plenty of time spent checking for accessibility and in browser performance problems.
> 
> Craig
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 15:02:01 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:02:01 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <9C80E285-C4D5-4D8D-A4AB-9FF5ECE4ACAA@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <9C80E285-C4D5-4D8D-A4AB-9FF5ECE4ACAA@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzh8KvGV_oKJ0aC9HFyxpRzzZ60YQW9XW=u7p+MySjPYFw@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 March 2015 at 14:41, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:
> Well, Google are building it... so I'm sure it's in good hands:>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/map_of_the_week/2013/03/google_reader_joins_graveyard_of_dead_google_products.html
>
> ... but seriously, it really depends on the project :-)

Microsoft are using it and contributing to it too and V2 uses TypeScript...
http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/05/microsoft-and-google-collaborate-on-typescript-hell-has-not-frozen-over-yet/

Steve


From anthony at anthonygeorge.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 15:12:45 2015
From: anthony at anthonygeorge.co.uk (Anthony George)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:12:45 +0000
Subject: [_] Umbraco meetup tonight
Message-ID: <CA+7ng08FiTN4rWg+ia_6OHnpmTmaxd6-ZN8G__LJmzHoU-o2Mw@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick mention of the Umbraco meetup tonight.

http://www.meetup.com/umBristol/events/220161469/


Cheers
Ant

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 15:45:54 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:45:54 -0000
Subject: [_] Magneto stats
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAIdlDYQozJ1OmQOmjfVaSs0BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Is there any way of finding the stats (views/traffic, ip's etc) in Magneto?
I don't have access to any other control panel.

Ta,

Martin.



From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 15:52:59 2015
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (Mike Karthauser)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:52:59 +0000
Subject: [_] Magneto stats
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAIdlDYQozJ1OmQOmjfVaSs0BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAIdlDYQozJ1OmQOmjfVaSs0BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <17DD1F9C-3A0D-4CE8-9020-5629F75851A8@brightstorm.co.uk>

Magneto? or Magento?

> On 12 Mar 2015, at 15:45, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Is there any way of finding the stats (views/traffic, ip's etc) in Magneto?
> I don't have access to any other control panel.
> 
> Ta,
> 
> Martin.

....................................
Mike Karth?user
Director, Brightstorm Ltd.

1, Brewery Court
North Street
Bristol
BS3 1JS

mikek at brightstorm.co.uk <mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk>
www.brightstorm.co.uk <http://www.brightstorm.co.uk/>
+44(0) 7939252144
....................................


From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Thu Mar 12 16:23:18 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 16:23:18 +0000
Subject: [_] Magneto stats
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAIdlDYQozJ1OmQOmjfVaSs0BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAIdlDYQozJ1OmQOmjfVaSs0BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB4796FD1548E77ABC6250192E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Everything you need to know about magneto can be found here...

http://marvel.com/universe/Magneto_%28Max_Eisenhardt%29


-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Martin Moore
Sent: 12 March 2015 15:46
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Magneto stats

Is there any way of finding the stats (views/traffic, ip's etc) in Magneto?
I don't have access to any other control panel.

Ta,

Martin.


-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From dajdavies at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 19:16:40 2015
From: dajdavies at gmail.com (Andy Davies)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 19:16:40 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CABbusALu75PJ63G8BcjRfwgERr0yEzxVRS_uBi--_Xe8f1P1iw@mail.gmail.com>

I've looked a the performance of a number of Angular apps for clients and
they've all had problems in one way or another.

- Long start up times
- Long digest cycles
- Memory DOM leaks
- Often have multiple large scopes etc.

Angular does a great job of simplifying components but in hiding the
complexity it brings other challenges too.

Andy




On 12 March 2015 at 14:21, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:

> The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of Oli Ward
> Sent: 12 March 2015 13:34
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
>
> >> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
> >> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their
> websites.
>
> > Is that Angular 1 or 2...
> > /me runs :-)
>
> Craig & Keith, good spot.
>
> This will be Angular 1.
>
> Oli Ward
>
> w: developme.training
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 08:54:51 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 08:54:51 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <CABbusALu75PJ63G8BcjRfwgERr0yEzxVRS_uBi--_Xe8f1P1iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CABbusALu75PJ63G8BcjRfwgERr0yEzxVRS_uBi--_Xe8f1P1iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKKikEyAxWyz4Fdi5fXD8eKKTvq63h02WM8=2j1JLxnbeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry your thread has been hijacked Oli!

I've never used AngularJS by choice! I find AngularJS (1) to be
over-opinionated, doesn't play well with others, makes a mess of the
markup, and as for putting logic in the HTML - what's that all about
in this day and age? Just my 2p.




On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Andy Davies <dajdavies at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've looked a the performance of a number of Angular apps for clients and
> they've all had problems in one way or another.
>
> - Long start up times
> - Long digest cycles
> - Memory DOM leaks
> - Often have multiple large scopes etc.
>
> Angular does a great job of simplifying components but in hiding the
> complexity it brings other challenges too.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> On 12 March 2015 at 14:21, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
>> Of Oli Ward
>> Sent: 12 March 2015 13:34
>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>> Subject: Re: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
>>
>> >> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
>> >> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their
>> websites.
>>
>> > Is that Angular 1 or 2...
>> > /me runs :-)
>>
>> Craig & Keith, good spot.
>>
>> This will be Angular 1.
>>
>> Oli Ward
>>
>> w: developme.training
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From gpearman at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 12:18:01 2015
From: gpearman at gmail.com (Gary Pearman)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 12:18:01 +0000
Subject: [_] Recommended Xero accountants
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9aPkm50gf1an6uHaAW1bemHDNZPCLMMgw03fXh-VEALJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D049ED38-1647-44E0-A33D-A20240431116@gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9aPkm50gf1an6uHaAW1bemHDNZPCLMMgw03fXh-VEALJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3FAEC50-69BA-4362-82D7-8711D77C1D52@gmail.com>

Cool, thanks.

> On 9 Mar 2015, at 15:14, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Gary,
> 
> Give Kevin at edenaccountants.co.uk a call, he uses Xero.
> 
> Tom
> On 9 Mar 2015 11:40, "Gary Pearman" <gpearman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Can anybody recommend any accountants that work with Xero? Thanks.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Gary.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 15:31:56 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 15:31:56 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubKKikEyAxWyz4Fdi5fXD8eKKTvq63h02WM8=2j1JLxnbeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CABbusALu75PJ63G8BcjRfwgERr0yEzxVRS_uBi--_Xe8f1P1iw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGKubKKikEyAxWyz4Fdi5fXD8eKKTvq63h02WM8=2j1JLxnbeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzi4ZHt8QE0AUUsNiE7LmyeNebx6SzRrc5A6n3keOEBQuQ@mail.gmail.com>

""AngularJS directives are similar to JSP tag libraries and are thus
prone to the same problems. I find it puzzling that some developers
(in the Java community at least) wrinkle their noses at JSP but praise
AngularJS""

http://tutorials.jenkov.com/angularjs/critique.html

Yep looks ugly.
Steve

On 13 March 2015 at 08:54, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry your thread has been hijacked Oli!
>
> I've never used AngularJS by choice! I find AngularJS (1) to be
> over-opinionated, doesn't play well with others, makes a mess of the
> markup, and as for putting logic in the HTML - what's that all about
> in this day and age? Just my 2p.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Andy Davies <dajdavies at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've looked a the performance of a number of Angular apps for clients and
>> they've all had problems in one way or another.
>>
>> - Long start up times
>> - Long digest cycles
>> - Memory DOM leaks
>> - Often have multiple large scopes etc.
>>
>> Angular does a great job of simplifying components but in hiding the
>> complexity it brings other challenges too.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 March 2015 at 14:21, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
>>> Of Oli Ward
>>> Sent: 12 March 2015 13:34
>>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
>>>
>>> >> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
>>> >> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their
>>> websites.
>>>
>>> > Is that Angular 1 or 2...
>>> > /me runs :-)
>>>
>>> Craig & Keith, good spot.
>>>
>>> This will be Angular 1.
>>>
>>> Oli Ward
>>>
>>> w: developme.training
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Fri Mar 13 16:26:53 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 16:26:53 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzi4ZHt8QE0AUUsNiE7LmyeNebx6SzRrc5A6n3keOEBQuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CABbusALu75PJ63G8BcjRfwgERr0yEzxVRS_uBi--_Xe8f1P1iw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGKubKKikEyAxWyz4Fdi5fXD8eKKTvq63h02WM8=2j1JLxnbeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzi4ZHt8QE0AUUsNiE7LmyeNebx6SzRrc5A6n3keOEBQuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5DAF7967-2535-4386-9FAF-126D37770B33@craigfrancis.co.uk>

On 13 Mar 2015, at 15:31, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> ""AngularJS directives are similar to JSP tag libraries and are thus
> prone to the same problems. I find it puzzling that some developers
> (in the Java community at least) wrinkle their noses at JSP but praise
> AngularJS""
> 
> http://tutorials.jenkov.com/angularjs/critique.html
> 
> Yep looks ugly.
> Steve
> 


But what do you expect with a company that seems to only employ Java developers? it seems they want to do everything in Java... e.g. JavaScript and Android apps :-)

Anyway, I should probably stop being mean to things I don't really understand.



From fiznool at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 17:45:01 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 17:45:01 +0000
Subject: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubKKikEyAxWyz4Fdi5fXD8eKKTvq63h02WM8=2j1JLxnbeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSZPnQfrt8Yq-X1SHJubay2Upq1cjnD1k+oZawg94JAkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479D7BE1923C95241EA0E82E9060@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CABbusALu75PJ63G8BcjRfwgERr0yEzxVRS_uBi--_Xe8f1P1iw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGKubKKikEyAxWyz4Fdi5fXD8eKKTvq63h02WM8=2j1JLxnbeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9Z3XixZ4ASYeK2yT74n5ba9-ttiQ9=ZpGkozwAed-oswQ@mail.gmail.com>

I find that angular serves a particular problem rather well - if you are
looking to build a data-driven, client-side app which consumes an API of
some sorts, it takes away a lot of the boilerplate associated with AJAX,
routing and form validation. It also allows you to modularise different
parts of your app, helping to alleviate 'spaghetti code' which you might
otherwise find if using raw JS or jquery.

Performance is a bit of an issue and so it doesn't play quite so nicely on
older mobile devices, however as browsers and devices evolve, this becomes
less of an issue.

It's certainly not a silver bullet, though - like every other tool in your
shed, it's only worth using in certain situations.

If you've found yourself writing a single page app and struggled with
modularity or code maintenance, I would argue the opinionated nature of the
platform is a good thing, and you should give it a go. Unfortunately, the
docs are still poor and many of the tutorials use outdated architectures.

Its a shame that they chose to call Angular 2.0 by that name - IMO it is so
different that it warranted an entirely new project name!
On 13 Mar 2015 08:55, "Rick Hurst" <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry your thread has been hijacked Oli!
>
> I've never used AngularJS by choice! I find AngularJS (1) to be
> over-opinionated, doesn't play well with others, makes a mess of the
> markup, and as for putting logic in the HTML - what's that all about
> in this day and age? Just my 2p.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Andy Davies <dajdavies at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've looked a the performance of a number of Angular apps for clients and
> > they've all had problems in one way or another.
> >
> > - Long start up times
> > - Long digest cycles
> > - Memory DOM leaks
> > - Often have multiple large scopes etc.
> >
> > Angular does a great job of simplifying components but in hiding the
> > complexity it brings other challenges too.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12 March 2015 at 14:21, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The next question is - Is that good or bad?!?
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> Behalf
> >> Of Oli Ward
> >> Sent: 12 March 2015 13:34
> >> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> >> Subject: Re: [_] AngularJS Course 10th April
> >>
> >> >> Angular is quickly become the JavaScript framework of choice for many
> >> >> developers wanting to add dynamic content and behaviour to their
> >> websites.
> >>
> >> > Is that Angular 1 or 2...
> >> > /me runs :-)
> >>
> >> Craig & Keith, good spot.
> >>
> >> This will be Angular 1.
> >>
> >> Oli Ward
> >>
> >> w: developme.training
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From ejdomreg at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 20:01:02 2015
From: ejdomreg at gmail.com (Edward Johns)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 20:01:02 +0000
Subject: [_] OT:Brickwork Re-pointing
Message-ID: <CAKX26HegY-bUGxU3nuXzNsCD6cpHO-GziL7mB5G0j_NyqX+65g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I've been told that I can't have the cavity wall insulated in my terrace
house until I sort out the pointing on the brickwork. Can anybody recommend
somebody to do this in Bristol? - No sure if I should be looking for a
builder or a brick layer? What kind of price might I be looking at?

Cheers,
Ed.

From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 10:38:31 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:38:31 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
Message-ID: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>

Hi [_]

After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.

Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.

I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).

Craig


As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they will need later in life... and they might have a point.

Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.

If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll find down the back of the settee.



From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 10:46:20 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:46:20 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Craig Francis
<craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they will need later in life... and they might have a point.
>
> Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
>
> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll find down the back of the settee.

la la! not listening! can't hear you!

-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From phil at web2wire.com  Mon Mar 16 11:04:35 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:04:35 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5506B8C3.1070307@web2wire.com>

If you ask me that is a lot to charge.

My pension is managed by this lot, http://www.wealth-matters.co.uk/ and 
I think their charges are around 0.25% or something (though they keep 
going down!). Although there doesn't sound a lot of difference between 
1% and 0.25% over a few years it makes a huge difference.

Although they are not local they will come and visit or do chats via 
Skype etc. Julian is the guy we deal with and he's well versed with both 
permie and contractor scenarios. On the initial chat they will basically 
examine your entire financial circumstances and come up with a variety 
of investment scenarios by working backwards from your desired 
retirement age and required income. Valuations etc are all available in 
real-time on the web and you can choose various strategies from 
ultra-conservative to a bit risky depending on your circumstances etc, 
it's easy to switch between them and it's all very carefully managed. 
We've been with them for a few years now and they are by far the best 
I've come across for this kind of thing.

Phil (unfortunately not on commission)

On 16/03/2015 10:38, Craig Francis wrote:
> Hi [_]
>
> After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.
>
> Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.
>
> I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).
>
> Craig
>
>
> As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they will need later in life... and they might have a point.
>
> Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
>
> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll find down the back of the settee.
>
>



From steve.kirtley at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 11:06:28 2015
From: steve.kirtley at gmail.com (Steve Kirtley)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:06:28 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHF22SxDHK9njZqO4TiJpgXxU6xDoMcE0Or=y53Sx20jtqUBfQ@mail.gmail.com>

The 1% fee sounds quite typical to manage the funds, but I'd imagine if you
shopped around there'd be somewhere that'll not charge the set-up fee.

Based on your figures maybe it's time to start actually paying into my
pension pot again. How depressing...

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi [_]
>
> After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get
> too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.
>
> Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm
> freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going
> adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.
>
> I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).
>
> Craig
>
>
> As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they
> will need later in life... and they might have a point.
>
> Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years,
> or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if
> you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people
> needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
>
> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so
> needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the
> pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll
> find down the back of the settee.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 11:08:45 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:45 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXdcSSvKEjzkjZ7tkY23cSWPR1npAAXTEpV9uQsM3pF=8+w@mail.gmail.com>

Your advisor is letting you know he'll be taking 1% of your pension value
for the rest of you life.  I would want some seriously good advice and
regular hands-on management for that.  You should also expect to pay fund
managers fees (~1%) and platform fees (~0.5%) on top of this and your
financial advisor should be making all these charges know to you.

So his offer might be around 2.4% in charges but what management/investment
he offering?  If he sticks you money in some relatively safe bonds then
your investment might cover his fees but will not do much for you.

Be wary of becoming his cash cow.

Cheapest I found was Cavendish (non advised SIPP) total costs are ~1%

http://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/pensions/

On 16 March 2015 at 10:38, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi [_]
>
> After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get
> too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.
>
> Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm
> freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going
> adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.
>
> I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).
>
> Craig
>
>
> As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they
> will need later in life... and they might have a point.
>
> Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years,
> or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if
> you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people
> needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
>
> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so
> needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the
> pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll
> find down the back of the settee.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:08:45 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:45 -0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAOmocyb4sbZEoxxlffTHnZUBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

I've just moved my pension - there was a one off fee but nowt ongoing. Try
Chris Watson Chris at investsouthwest.co.uk - I've known him for years and he's
an honest straightforward guy who knows his stuff - and won't rip you off!!


Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Craig Francis
Sent: 16 March 2015 10:39
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Pensions

Hi [_]

After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get too
old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.

Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm
freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going
adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.

I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).

Craig


As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they
will need later in life... and they might have a point.

Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years,
or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if
you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people
needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.

If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so
needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the
pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll
find down the back of the settee.


-- 
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
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From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:08:55 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:08:55 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6dde5d97df904913b8be062111df4867@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month 

Kind of - but you're ignoring the fact that pension funds are invested in a variety of ways so as to grow on their own as well as through contributions. A decent, well managed pension fund, invested with exposure to only medium level risk *should* grow at 7% pa, even through our previously crappy financial climate. If you've more time on your hands (ie a while until you expect to retire) and a bit of an appetite to risk then returns over 10% are easily achievable.

The initial fee you've quoted does sound high though, I/we use Tom Fear who is very good - http://www.tomfear.co.uk/index.php/contact-us  

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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From me at amias.net  Mon Mar 16 11:19:51 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:19:51 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Craig,

You might have paid off your mortgage by then but you will still have
utility bills and house repairs.

Check the small print on your pension , a lot of them won't gaurantee a
return and include weasel words like
"if the market fails to deliver the expected sum we may not be able to pay
out the agreed payments"

In someways thats fair enough , investments can change but you shouldn't be
at risk of loosing your investment
for a pension. I also found the idea of management fees a bit cheeky , they
get to invest your money and can keep the returns over the agreed amount
after all.

Please also consider where your pension funds are being invested , mostly
they finance oil and gas exploration which is unlikely to yield the same
returns for the next twenty years. Some might say it would seriously limit
your
chances of having a safe climate to enjoy your retirement within.

Most ethical policies seem to be of the 'exclude one problematic area' type
of choice e.g. no oil and gas but mining , commodity trading , sweat shops
, alcohol and tobacco are ok. YMMV but please remember investment returns
don't come out of the ether , its money that comes from somewhere and if
you don't specify your ethics you will be co-opted into stuff that you
wouldn't otherwise be comfortable investing in directly. Pensions are the
the unseen hand that funds a lot of the worst type of exploitative
investment so please be careful.

Personally i'm covering this type of thing by paying off my mortgage on the
eco house i've just bought so that i only need a very small pension as it
has negligable bills.  YMMV and i'm obviously not a financial advisor
etc.....

Cheers
Amias

On 16 March 2015 at 10:46, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Craig Francis
> <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they
> will need later in life... and they might have a point.
> >
> > Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20
> years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses
> (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for
> two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
> >
> > If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so
> needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the
> pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll
> find down the back of the settee.
>
> la la! not listening! can't hear you!
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:19:51 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:19:51 +0000
Subject: [_] Valuing a company
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vzjWefxKRhARidY5OoxhTExDy3hVS0cmUOfYnJjwQu0cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwc0ZOeLctS4fL=w7__iKYAZVMM5wbemEhN+9qsKdbNjVWUTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <06A503562AB1CC4BB3BD38CD7C328AD6153C17AA@THHSLE14MBX1.hslive.net>
 <CAJwc0ZOdw=YwnEbjBYGmVJr4f4quKqHzEU4NZx8LXt2zUBn1Yw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPBFXddJ1At7q6DWpOcfroheYcHR2ihWe3jzr-N-y-tyDRZ=9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <70647126-A996-4896-B05B-F4D7B3E96961@theenglishgroup.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vzjWefxKRhARidY5OoxhTExDy3hVS0cmUOfYnJjwQu0cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZMS6kLZtxPe8ws=cyUCPDVYNSNCRP2Df+c7ec-ODM6PhA@mail.gmail.com>

For the record Simon is a top bloke regarding stuff like this....

On 26 March 2014 at 21:19, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:

> Icon are only really interested in M&A and exits.  If that's hat you need,
> talk to Simon Moynagh.
>
> Cheers, Nigel
> 07914 740972
>
>
>
> On 26 March 2014 20:45, Marc Carter <marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Icon Corporate Finance in Bristol specialise in raising funding for tech
> > companies, and arranging business valuations or buy outs/exits.
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> > Marc Carter
> > The English Group
> > The Gate House
> > Upper Shockerwick Farm
> > Upper Shockerwick
> > Bath
> > BA1 7LH
> >
> > T. +44 (0)1225 742273
> >
> > E. marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk
> >
> > W. www.theenglishgroup.co.uk
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > > On 26 Mar 2014, at 20:10, James Bewley <jamesbewley at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Your accountant unless they are strictly in the bookkeeping game.  If
> you
> > > want some professional advise you are probably looking for a *corporate
> > > finance advisor* like these
> > > guys<
> >
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/corporate+finance+adviser/@51.4569919,-2.5971467,13z
> > >and
> > > if you are planning a large value buyout then you need some well
> > > connected investment bankers like these
> > > guys<http://www.gpbullhound.com/en/transactions-ma/>
> > > .
> > >
> > > Don't thank me now, I'll take my commission when you nail that IPO.
> > >
> > >
> > >> On 26 March 2014 18:19, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> See I wouldn't rate my accountant to value my company. He's an
> > accountant
> > >> after all and not necessarily tuned it to what a business might be
> > worth in
> > >> it's respective sector surely? Maybe I'm wrong.
> > >>
> > >> I'm not interested in how much things like Facebook go for as there is
> > next
> > >> to no logic there.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 26 March 2014 18:07, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> Does anyone know of anyone, or has used anyone, to value a company?
> > >>>
> > >>> An/your accountant is the best person to tell you that. Essentially
> > it's
> > >>> whatever someone is willing to pay for it, look at the bonkers money
> > >>> Facebook is chucking around at present, god knows where those figures
> > >> come
> > >>> from!!
> > >>>
> > >>> If you use a company to sell or buy a company then they'll be taking
> a
> > %
> > >>> so you're better doing it independently.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > >>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud
> > service.
> > >>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> > >>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > >>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >> Jon Free
> > >>
> > >> WasteSource
> > >>
> > >> 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
> > >>
> > >> wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> |
> > >> @wastesource<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
> > >>
> > >> Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
> > >>
> > >> Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole
> use
> > of
> > >> the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of
> > the
> > >> contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> > >> unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> > >> message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to
> > the
> > >> sender.
> > >> --
> > >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:20:37 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:20:37 +0000
Subject: [_] Wanted: SQL Server Genius
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZOd+egrnfJVOKRcEgJD+BS3WDFXLxpwhRqGVPJ_gKatfA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for a SQL Server genius. Mainly for up keep, maintenance and
big query improvements. Ideally on a freelance basis.

Does anyone know of or use someone like this?

From trevorgrichards at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 11:26:33 2015
From: trevorgrichards at gmail.com (Trevor Richards)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:26:33 +0000
Subject: [_] Wanted: SQL Server Genius
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZOd+egrnfJVOKRcEgJD+BS3WDFXLxpwhRqGVPJ_gKatfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwc0ZOd+egrnfJVOKRcEgJD+BS3WDFXLxpwhRqGVPJ_gKatfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+0cfc1jnGarPgFpieg7Xx2ZdcWRTXDn1dPLQX9igJCg2rc-JA@mail.gmail.com>

I can highly recommend http://www.pro-dba.com/sql/. I've used them for a
one-off to solve some performance issues but they also do monthly support.

Friendly guys who seem to be very keen to help.

Cheers,
Trev

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk>
wrote:

> I'm looking for a SQL Server genius. Mainly for up keep, maintenance and
> big query improvements. Ideally on a freelance basis.
>
> Does anyone know of or use someone like this?
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:40:46 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:40:46 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, I've been off list for a couple of months. I'm not sure what the
latest etiquette is for posting jobs, please don't flame me if this is
inappropriate, but ...

I need a new tech lead :D Here is the job spec:

http://theagencyonline.co.uk/job/technical-lead/

Its a good one! As ever we're trying to be creative with solution design,
keeping current with tools, hardware and process and trying our best to
make good works. If you're already a tech lead or thinking of a step up,
let me know off list.

Nick Clarkson
Technical Director
TheAgency

nclarkson at theangencyonline.co.uk
@t_pk

AGENCIES
If you insist on contacting us, please send CV submissions to astobie@
theagencyonline.co.uk

Like and share!!

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:49:35 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:49:35 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>

This is very inappropriate....

On 16 March 2015 at 11:40, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi all, I've been off list for a couple of months. I'm not sure what the
> latest etiquette is for posting jobs, please don't flame me if this is
> inappropriate, but ...
>
> I need a new tech lead :D Here is the job spec:
>
> http://theagencyonline.co.uk/job/technical-lead/
>
> Its a good one! As ever we're trying to be creative with solution design,
> keeping current with tools, hardware and process and trying our best to
> make good works. If you're already a tech lead or thinking of a step up,
> let me know off list.
>
> Nick Clarkson
> Technical Director
> TheAgency
>
> nclarkson at theangencyonline.co.uk
> @t_pk
>
> AGENCIES
> If you insist on contacting us, please send CV submissions to astobie@
> theagencyonline.co.uk
>
> Like and share!!
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Mon Mar 16 11:21:18 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:21:18 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1426504895348.62690@lewdewe.com>

Hi Craig,

Hmm, I suspect you will have to revise your expectations. What kind of lifestyle are you thinking of for your retirement?

I feed my Labrador on a natural raw meat diet which is pretty pricey and so I'm effectively feeding 1.5 to 2 persons. I can just about do this even on Jobseeker's Allowance. As an additional example, when I lived in a shared house with Chinese students several years ago we managed to keep food costs down to about ?150-200 per person per month. How is this done? Simply by doing traditional meat and veg home cooking and not buying expensive ready-made items. If you don't mind soups and stews then you can eat very nutritious food for about ?1-2 per meal.

As for energy, at today's prices you shouldn't need to spend more than ?100 per month and that's very indulgent compared to the average temperature in people's homes several decades ago. I currently spend about ?1 per day on electric and use a portable gas heater in the cold months. Water and sewage is about ?20-30 per month, internet is about ?40 let's say. For travel minimise costs and use whatever is cheapest, take advantage of any discounts or schemes for retired/elderly people.

So taking your scenario where you have a guaranteed home without rent or mortgage, in theory you could scrape by on just ?500-600 per month for two people. If you increase that to ?1000 per month then you have plenty extra for luxuries such as hobbies and nights out etc.

Now if those in power globally continue to mismanage our economics and perpetuate our hemorrhaging of purchasing power then it may well be that you need ?2000 per month in 30 years time. If that's going to be the case then you might want to consider where in the world you can live cheaply and which country will likely do the best job in protecting itself against social problems.

But as a starting point I would begin at today's prices, add a margin for some degree of likely inflation and take it from there, as well as planning ahead as to how to reduce expenditure even further if things turn out tighter than expected. Over the next 20 years you also need to explore possibilities in setting yourself up so you can still comfortably get a bit of money in retirement from just 1-2 days of easy work per week or to have implemented something that will give you a trickle of extra income - not that difficult for us in the digital industry.


Kind Regards,
Erik Wallace

________________________________________
From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk>
Sent: 16 March 2015 10:38
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Pensions

Hi [_]

After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.

Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.

I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).

Craig


As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they will need later in life... and they might have a point.

Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.

If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll find down the back of the settee.


--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 11:59:10 2015
From: matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk (Matt Tomlinson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:59:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
Message-ID: <D12C6EA1.14B8A5%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>

Hi

OK, I?m no guru, but I strongly suggest that you read a book called ?The
long and the short of it? by a bloke called John Kay before you commit.

It?s been a little while since I read the book, but his essential
hypothesis is that most pension funds and investment trusts invest your
money in very pedestrian ways, in fact, so pedestrian that the average
educated professional could do equally well over the long term, without
having to pay any management fees. A self-invested stocks & shares ISA
will let you put in ?10k+ per annum, buy some basic shares and even have
the odd punt on something that interests you, very easy to do (I think I
pay ?5/month), you can trade from your laptop and you?ll hopefully find
that over the long-run, you do as well as the pension would have,
especially when you deduct fees. If you keep everything within the ISA
then you can trade free of capital gains tax. The bonus is that should you
ever get into trouble, or get a great opportunity, then you have a pot of
cash you can dip into (though you can?t put it back again).

The other thing is that before you save, make sure that you?ve paid off as
much debt as possible, if you have a flexible mortgage it can be worth
making overpayments. Nationwide used to allow you to pay an extra
?500/month which can shave years off the time it takes to repay your
mortgage and save you ???. The other advantage is that you can generally
use the overpayments to cover your mortgage, so if you hit hard times you
can use the fund as an insurance policy to pay the mortgage.

Now the bit where it starts to get more complicated is when you factor in
tax, the taxman likes you to save and so there are incentives to do so in
the form of tax relief on pension contributions, and I think it can start
to make sense if you are a higher rate payer, but you basically have to do
the calculation whether the tax saving outweighs the benefit that you
would have if you just took the hit on the tax and invested yourself.
Don?t forget that tax advantages are not set in stone.

If you are self-employed and you have not done so already, it may also be
worth forming a limited company, particularly if your spouse is on a low
income, as you can pay them salary and dividends and effectively share a
single tax allowance, the company can pay for all sorts of stuff etc. This
is also a very good wheeze if you are planning on having children, as you
can get maternity pay from each employer you have, and if you are a small
business, the Inland Revenue will refund the maternity pay (clever huh?).

Finally, if you have a family and don?t have it already, I?d prioritise
some good life insurance ahead of pension. Peace of mind and most will
also pay out in the event of serious illness or death of a child. Awful
thing to have to think about, but the sort of thing that would make a
shitty situation a bit more bearable!


I should add, I am not an investment or tax professional, please seek
advice from a sober grown-up before making investment decisions etc

Good Luck!

Matt  


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From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Mon Mar 16 11:36:33 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:36:33 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1426505810434.97999@lewdewe.com>

Hi Amias,

You make some good points there about ethics etc. Thanks for that.

There are a few schemes around Europe and elsewhere that invest only in precious metals, but the performance of those long term is very much open to debate.

Is it the case that once you had your money over to a pension scheme you can't get it back again, i.e. they permanently keep the saved capital?


Kind Regards,
Erik

________________________________________
From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Amias Channer <me at amias.net>
Sent: 16 March 2015 11:19
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Pensions


Personally i'm covering this type of thing by paying off my mortgage on the
eco house i've just bought so that i only need a very small pension as it
has negligable bills.  YMMV and i'm obviously not a financial advisor
etc.....

Cheers
Amias

From trevorgrichards at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 12:14:09 2015
From: trevorgrichards at gmail.com (Trevor Richards)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:14:09 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <D12C6EA1.14B8A5%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
References: <D12C6EA1.14B8A5%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+0cfc1GV+pv_7uC0f+qhsM0Zoic+K9af0pn47=z=Y882EvVUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I totally agree with Matt in terms of looking into a self managed fund
rather than paying someone to do this. There's can be quite a lot of terms
and jargon to get your head around but it's worth it if you can persevere.

It's also worth noting that you can invest in a SIPP to avoid a lot of the
tax that you would have to pay (although you need to be aware of the
restrictions that are placed on your money).

I've been with Hargreaves Lansdown for a while and they are OK (if you were
thinking of going down the self managed route).

Also wanted to mention the "magic" of compounding interest - the more you
can invest earlier on, the more you should get the benefit of compounding
(i.e. if you are reading this - don't put off thinking about your
pension!).

Good luck,
Trev

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Matt Tomlinson <matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi
>
> OK, I?m no guru, but I strongly suggest that you read a book called ?The
> long and the short of it? by a bloke called John Kay before you commit.
>
> It?s been a little while since I read the book, but his essential
> hypothesis is that most pension funds and investment trusts invest your
> money in very pedestrian ways, in fact, so pedestrian that the average
> educated professional could do equally well over the long term, without
> having to pay any management fees. A self-invested stocks & shares ISA
> will let you put in ?10k+ per annum, buy some basic shares and even have
> the odd punt on something that interests you, very easy to do (I think I
> pay ?5/month), you can trade from your laptop and you?ll hopefully find
> that over the long-run, you do as well as the pension would have,
> especially when you deduct fees. If you keep everything within the ISA
> then you can trade free of capital gains tax. The bonus is that should you
> ever get into trouble, or get a great opportunity, then you have a pot of
> cash you can dip into (though you can?t put it back again).
>
> The other thing is that before you save, make sure that you?ve paid off as
> much debt as possible, if you have a flexible mortgage it can be worth
> making overpayments. Nationwide used to allow you to pay an extra
> ?500/month which can shave years off the time it takes to repay your
> mortgage and save you ???. The other advantage is that you can generally
> use the overpayments to cover your mortgage, so if you hit hard times you
> can use the fund as an insurance policy to pay the mortgage.
>
> Now the bit where it starts to get more complicated is when you factor in
> tax, the taxman likes you to save and so there are incentives to do so in
> the form of tax relief on pension contributions, and I think it can start
> to make sense if you are a higher rate payer, but you basically have to do
> the calculation whether the tax saving outweighs the benefit that you
> would have if you just took the hit on the tax and invested yourself.
> Don?t forget that tax advantages are not set in stone.
>
> If you are self-employed and you have not done so already, it may also be
> worth forming a limited company, particularly if your spouse is on a low
> income, as you can pay them salary and dividends and effectively share a
> single tax allowance, the company can pay for all sorts of stuff etc. This
> is also a very good wheeze if you are planning on having children, as you
> can get maternity pay from each employer you have, and if you are a small
> business, the Inland Revenue will refund the maternity pay (clever huh?).
>
> Finally, if you have a family and don?t have it already, I?d prioritise
> some good life insurance ahead of pension. Peace of mind and most will
> also pay out in the event of serious illness or death of a child. Awful
> thing to have to think about, but the sort of thing that would make a
> shitty situation a bit more bearable!
>
>
> I should add, I am not an investment or tax professional, please seek
> advice from a sober grown-up before making investment decisions etc
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Matt
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------------
> The Digital Department
>
> +44 (0) 7956 326656
> matt at t <matt at the-digital-department.co.uk>he-digital-department.co.uk
> <matt at the-digital-department.co.uk>
> www.the-digital-department.co.uk <http://www.the-digital-department.co.uk>
>
> 1.5 Temple Studios, Temple Meads, Bristol, BS1 6QA, UK
>
> This e-mail is from Matt Tomlinson Digital Marketing Ltd. It is
> confidential to the addressee and may be privileged. The views expressed
> are personal and do not necessarily reflect those of Matt Tomlinson
> Digital Marketing Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient please notify
> the sender immediately by calling us on +44 (0) 7956 326656 and do not
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>
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>
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>
>
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>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 12:21:04 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:21:04 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>

Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do you?

On 16 March 2015 at 11:49, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:

> This is very inappropriate....
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 11:40, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all, I've been off list for a couple of months. I'm not sure what the
> > latest etiquette is for posting jobs, please don't flame me if this is
> > inappropriate, but ...
> >
> > I need a new tech lead :D Here is the job spec:
> >
> > http://theagencyonline.co.uk/job/technical-lead/
> >
> > Its a good one! As ever we're trying to be creative with solution design,
> > keeping current with tools, hardware and process and trying our best to
> > make good works. If you're already a tech lead or thinking of a step up,
> > let me know off list.
> >
> > Nick Clarkson
> > Technical Director
> > TheAgency
> >
> > nclarkson at theangencyonline.co.uk
> > @t_pk
> >
> > AGENCIES
> > If you insist on contacting us, please send CV submissions to astobie@
> > theagencyonline.co.uk
> >
> > Like and share!!
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jon Free
>
> WasteSource
>
> 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
>
> wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
> <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
>
> Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
>
> Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
> the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
> contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
> sender.
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From andy at seaborne.org  Mon Mar 16 12:28:17 2015
From: andy at seaborne.org (Andy Seaborne)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:28:17 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5506CC61.8070701@seaborne.org>

On 16/03/15 10:38, Craig Francis wrote:
> Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension
> (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and
> an on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.

That's probably on top of any fund charges.

There are lots of online stakeholder pension changing 0.5% or less 
annual and than that's all you pay, not 1%(adviser) + 0.5%(fund) = 3x as 
much.  And that compounds.

So if 5% after inflation of 2% [*] (it looks like we're going into a 
period of less average growth than the last few decades), taking off 1% 
is -20%.

Actively managed funds need to do better than index tracking ones by at 
least the amount of their management charges and do that consistently. 
Very good ones do that for periods of time (eventually they don't as 
their magic wears off), some don't even match trackers.

Tracking funds don't end up at the top of the tables but also they don't 
end up at the bottom.  IIRC they tend to be above average, for long term 
investments, simply because the charges are less.

It will depend on how actively you want to manage your pension.

One possibility is going to the financial adviser for the advice, pay a 
single fee for advice and a plan, then execute the plan yourself.  It 
costs more as the adviser does not get income for each succeeding year 
but there are no future charges.

[See "Capital in the 21st century" about how large investors don't 
invest in equities but go direct the to underlying assets.]

	Andy

(Annoyed by investments he made via advisers in the past)

[*] All equities

A random Google search found me:
(Standard Life website:)
Equities:        7%
Property:        6%
Corporate Bonds: 4%
Gilts:           3%
Cash & Other:    2.5%

which presumable is the standard rates, without tax consideration but no 
indication of low/med/high bands.

but also this text: a different provider:

[[
The Financial Conduct
  Authority has set standard
  growth rates of -0.5%,
  2.5% and 5.5% after the effect of inflation for
   long-term projections
]]
Long term inflation of 2.5%, and we have 2%/5%/7%.


From matt at matthewwilkes.name  Mon Mar 16 12:46:23 2015
From: matt at matthewwilkes.name (Matthew Wilkes)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:46:23 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>

On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do you?

I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously? You're 
threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?

Matt


From matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 12:53:54 2015
From: matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk (Matt Tomlinson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:53:54 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
Message-ID: <D12C81F8.14B99C%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>

Hi

Forgot to say, if you have spare dosh and are feeling *really* generous,
you can set up pension funds for your kids and pay into them. It?s very
much a long-term bet (goodness knows what will happen in terms of tax,
war, flood, famine, inflation etc), but as suggested earlier, compound
interest does very interesting things over that long a timeframe.

Matt





From hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 12:58:41 2015
From: hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk (Hugh Parr-Burman)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:58:41 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
Message-ID: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello [_]

We're looking for talented junior or mid-weight developers to join our dev
team at our Bath based office (only about 10 mins from station).
http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/journal/post/were-hiring-mid-weight-developers


Give me a shout if you'd like to chat further.

Cheers,

Hugh

From james at nuvola.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 12:59:29 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:59:29 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5506D3B1.7050904@nuvola.co.uk>

I've been quite impressed with www.bestinvest.co.uk - they offer a 
non-advised SIPP with competitive fees, and you can hold a variety of 
funds (as well as shares) to suit your needs. There is no charge for 
moving money in and out of funds on the whole, although there is a fee 
for share dealing. They also offer a variety of portfolios, which are 
collections of funds that they manage.

On 16/03/15 10:38, Craig Francis wrote:
> Hi [_]
>
> After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.
>
> Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.
>
> I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).
>
> Craig
>
>
> As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they will need later in life... and they might have a point.
>
> Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
>
> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll find down the back of the settee.
>



From rob at hobbyistsoftware.com  Mon Mar 16 13:01:43 2015
From: rob at hobbyistsoftware.com (Rob Jonson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:01:43 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
Message-ID: <CACTOy+oJHjrYV+3gi9_cvZ_qaP9TBjx8ZoGAntGWWGT0gJxLdQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not a financial advisor, do your own research, blah blah blah...

the implementation fee and advisor fees may well be par for the course, but
they are also huge and avoidable.

The 1% particularly will have an enormous effect on your pension size
(consider that you might be hoping for 4-5% return, so you're giving 20-25%
of your investment return to a fund manager).

http://monevator.com/pension-fund-returns/

The pension advisor and fund manager will advise you that they have a
special ability to see into the future and predict what the market will do.
What's 1% fee if they can add 5% to your return.

The answer is that it would be fine if they really could see the future,
but in fact they can't. Managed funds don't outperform index funds. If they
could predict the future, they wouldn't be wasting time managing your money.

http://www.businessinsider.com/index-funds-beat-actively-managed-funds-2013-6?IR=T

so - my answer is to pick an index fund area, and put my pension in the
lowest cost fund which does the job.

Personally I have 50% in uk equities (ftse tracker) and 50% in an
all-europe tracker.
The Europe tracker exposes me to currency risk as well as performance risk
and is not obviously a good choice!

Cavendish online do a fabulous job of providing a low cost pension
platform. Essentially, they put almost all of the kickback that would
normally go to the financial advisor right back into your fund (by
providing discounted management fees).

You'll pay about 0.4% for tracker funds in their system with (I think) ?0
setup fee.

http://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/pensions/

Moneysaving expert and motley fool both provide good advice on this stuff.
Spend a couple of hours researching - you'll get a massive pay off for your
time in the long run.

enjoy!

Rob

-- 





Hobbyist Software is a trading name of Hobbyist Software Limited.
Registered office 12 Fraley Rd, Bristol, BS93BS. Registered in England.
Company no:7876492

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 13:04:47 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:04:47 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>

He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...

On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name> wrote:

> On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
>
>> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do you?
>>
>
> I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously? You're
> threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From rob at hobbyistsoftware.com  Mon Mar 16 13:14:51 2015
From: rob at hobbyistsoftware.com (Rob Jonson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:14:51 +0000
Subject: [_] Underscore Digest, Vol 139, Issue 29
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1402.1426509988.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
References: <mailman.1402.1426509988.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
Message-ID: <CACTOy+pVFVO4SMBLw2brA9RTGvwW7di_GMLJcNqaxrQ=GZtfJA@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, <underscore-request at under-score.org.uk> wrote:

> Actively managed funds need to do better than index tracking ones by at
> least the amount of their management charges and do that consistently.
> Very good ones do that for periods of time (eventually they don't as
> their magic wears off), some don't even match trackers.
>

 Very lucky ones do that for periods of time (eventually they don't because
no fund is likely to be lucky for very long). Unfortunately, there is no
way to predict which ones will be lucky. Some don't even match trackers.

ftfy!

Remember, there are thousands of funds. By chance, some of those will beat
the market for multiple years.
They'll then try to convince you that they did this through magic rather
than luck (and they may even believe it themselves).
However, the normal distribution of the returns shows us that there is no
magic in play here.






-- 





Hobbyist Software is a trading name of Hobbyist Software Limited.
Registered office 12 Fraley Rd, Bristol, BS93BS. Registered in England.
Company no:7876492

From shane at mcewan.id.au  Mon Mar 16 13:32:11 2015
From: shane at mcewan.id.au (Shane McEwan)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:32:11 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
 <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5506DB5B.3020405@mcewan.id.au>

On 16/03/15 13:04, Jon Free wrote:
> He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...

Surely you're thinking of JEREMY Clarkson?

Shane.




From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 13:38:42 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:38:42 -0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
 <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAMLqgATexXhMm3Y+vUJquGEBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

<gets_popcorn />

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Free
Sent: 16 March 2015 13:05
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )

He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...

On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name> wrote:

> On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
>
>> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do you?
>>
>
> I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously? You're 
> threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/ 
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the sender.
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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From steve.kirtley at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 13:43:16 2015
From: steve.kirtley at gmail.com (Steve Kirtley)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:43:16 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHF22SyLXd0kC4KBzJ3M++SvcnEePUiPLhJDg9ohmDmaMWoLig@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome back Nick.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Nick Clarkson <
nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all, I've been off list for a couple of months. I'm not sure what the
> latest etiquette is for posting jobs, please don't flame me if this is
> inappropriate, but ...
>
> I need a new tech lead :D Here is the job spec:
>
> http://theagencyonline.co.uk/job/technical-lead/
>
> Its a good one! As ever we're trying to be creative with solution design,
> keeping current with tools, hardware and process and trying our best to
> make good works. If you're already a tech lead or thinking of a step up,
> let me know off list.
>
> Nick Clarkson
> Technical Director
> TheAgency
>
> nclarkson at theangencyonline.co.uk
> @t_pk
>
> AGENCIES
> If you insist on contacting us, please send CV submissions to astobie@
> theagencyonline.co.uk
>
> Like and share!!
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 13:45:10 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:45:10 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
 <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2zn8BUPeD26o6P9k_tGLd2YW1BXDeNNB-fOxYkybRXPLAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ha! Sorry Matt, i'll tone it down. And Jon if i need a .net freelancer I'll
remember to call Ed Pitt.

On 16 March 2015 at 13:04, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:

> He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name> wrote:
>
> > On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
> >
> >> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do you?
> >>
> >
> > I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously? You're
> > threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jon Free
>
> WasteSource
>
> 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
>
> wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
> <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
>
> Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
>
> Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
> the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
> contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
> sender.
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 13:47:32 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:47:32 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CACTOy+oJHjrYV+3gi9_cvZ_qaP9TBjx8ZoGAntGWWGT0gJxLdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACTOy+oJHjrYV+3gi9_cvZ_qaP9TBjx8ZoGAntGWWGT0gJxLdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXdcVbHeXrYkUbwX=4MNAdhESbojrOoSwQc9oMWHSM1CpXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 March 2015 at 13:01, Rob Jonson <rob at hobbyistsoftware.com> wrote:

> Managed funds don't outperform index funds. If they
> could predict the future, they wouldn't be wasting time managing your
> money.
>
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/index-funds-beat-actively-managed-funds-2013-6?IR=T


"*researchers found index fund portfolios outperformed comparable actively
managed portfolios a staggering 82% to 90% of the time*"

Is that because 90% of *comparable* mutual funds are managed by monkeys?

Economics is complex but I do not believe it is a complete unknown
quantity.  Do a bit of research and I think you'll more often than not beat
a market tracker.

www.morningstar.co.uk

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 13:50:00 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:50:00 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2zn8BUPeD26o6P9k_tGLd2YW1BXDeNNB-fOxYkybRXPLAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
 <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zn8BUPeD26o6P9k_tGLd2YW1BXDeNNB-fOxYkybRXPLAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZMwbT+9JN2cVuWQ9Ed_mVjbOfAwJ-FtRSpQbigs-4=bPg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a bin man now Clarkson...

On 16 March 2015 at 13:45, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
wrote:

> Ha! Sorry Matt, i'll tone it down. And Jon if i need a .net freelancer I'll
> remember to call Ed Pitt.
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 13:04, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...
> >
> > On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
> > >
> > >> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do
> you?
> > >>
> > >
> > > I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously? You're
> > > threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jon Free
> >
> > WasteSource
> >
> > 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
> >
> > wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> |
> @wastesource
> > <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
> >
> > Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
> >
> > Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use
> of
> > the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of
> the
> > contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> > unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> > message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to
> the
> > sender.
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 13:52:01 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:52:01 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CAHF22SyLXd0kC4KBzJ3M++SvcnEePUiPLhJDg9ohmDmaMWoLig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHF22SyLXd0kC4KBzJ3M++SvcnEePUiPLhJDg9ohmDmaMWoLig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2z=kD-ArZ2GwiTb_ykwv4S8FDR4rxxw+ZThKGe4ABLbTnA@mail.gmail.com>

Nice one Steve! Great to be back :D

On 16 March 2015 at 13:43, Steve Kirtley <steve.kirtley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Welcome back Nick.
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Nick Clarkson <
> nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi all, I've been off list for a couple of months. I'm not sure what the
> > latest etiquette is for posting jobs, please don't flame me if this is
> > inappropriate, but ...
> >
> > I need a new tech lead :D Here is the job spec:
> >
> > http://theagencyonline.co.uk/job/technical-lead/
> >
> > Its a good one! As ever we're trying to be creative with solution design,
> > keeping current with tools, hardware and process and trying our best to
> > make good works. If you're already a tech lead or thinking of a step up,
> > let me know off list.
> >
> > Nick Clarkson
> > Technical Director
> > TheAgency
> >
> > nclarkson at theangencyonline.co.uk
> > @t_pk
> >
> > AGENCIES
> > If you insist on contacting us, please send CV submissions to astobie@
> > theagencyonline.co.uk
> >
> > Like and share!!
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 13:58:24 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:58:24 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZMwbT+9JN2cVuWQ9Ed_mVjbOfAwJ-FtRSpQbigs-4=bPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
 <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zn8BUPeD26o6P9k_tGLd2YW1BXDeNNB-fOxYkybRXPLAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZMwbT+9JN2cVuWQ9Ed_mVjbOfAwJ-FtRSpQbigs-4=bPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2znRqRf_8vLaXZZ85vy2wnbkM38r-tE9QxRDbq_wsfqq8w@mail.gmail.com>

Of course! I knew that, I saw something about it on linkedin. congrats man
:D

On 16 March 2015 at 13:50, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:

> I'm a bin man now Clarkson...
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 13:45, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Ha! Sorry Matt, i'll tone it down. And Jon if i need a .net freelancer
> I'll
> > remember to call Ed Pitt.
> >
> > On 16 March 2015 at 13:04, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...
> > >
> > > On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do
> > you?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously?
> You're
> > > > threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > > > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Jon Free
> > >
> > > WasteSource
> > >
> > > 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
> > >
> > > wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> |
> > @wastesource
> > > <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
> > >
> > > Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
> > >
> > > Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use
> > of
> > > the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of
> > the
> > > contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> > > unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> > > message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to
> > the
> > > sender.
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jon Free
>
> WasteSource
>
> 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
>
> wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
> <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
>
> Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
>
> Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
> the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
> contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
> sender.
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From abrahamster at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 14:11:33 2015
From: abrahamster at gmail.com (Dave Abraham)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:11:33 +0000
Subject: [_] JOB: Tech Lead ( PHP )
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2znRqRf_8vLaXZZ85vy2wnbkM38r-tE9QxRDbq_wsfqq8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+Kf2z=s1-TqyoNoOR0S7rnzdvNgVb23bGdWBA3FRxPc7x8ePQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZNfQ02FeMOU1_MNrp9ySWXQrrxHeU0P6kJD7TQzrh_8rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkpFKzP7bXgTW1DpYMNmZQ3cpeoFN3tojdoBPiHiapGfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5506D09F.607@matthewwilkes.name>
 <CAJwc0ZP2abMOQsRGuXDCoPeNHXvTOp9Vh4FPJ4PDuUcnmK5+dQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zn8BUPeD26o6P9k_tGLd2YW1BXDeNNB-fOxYkybRXPLAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZMwbT+9JN2cVuWQ9Ed_mVjbOfAwJ-FtRSpQbigs-4=bPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2znRqRf_8vLaXZZ85vy2wnbkM38r-tE9QxRDbq_wsfqq8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+deSx-TS=5U15qu_1pWpmSijyNoj93V8NWE_+EO3jywD9gBkA@mail.gmail.com>

This thread has potential.

Dave

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Nick Clarkson <
nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk> wrote:

> Of course! I knew that, I saw something about it on linkedin. congrats man
> :D
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 13:50, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'm a bin man now Clarkson...
> >
> > On 16 March 2015 at 13:45, Nick Clarkson <
> nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ha! Sorry Matt, i'll tone it down. And Jon if i need a .net freelancer
> > I'll
> > > remember to call Ed Pitt.
> > >
> > > On 16 March 2015 at 13:04, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > He's a completely unstable individual. Steer well clear...
> > > >
> > > > On 16 March 2015 at 12:46, Matthew Wilkes <matt at matthewwilkes.name>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2015-03-16 12:21, Nick Clarkson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Do you want me to share your mobile number with agencies again? do
> > > you?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know what the issue between you two is, but? seriously?
> > You're
> > > > > threatening someone at the same time as posting a job advert?
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > > > > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Jon Free
> > > >
> > > > WasteSource
> > > >
> > > > 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
> > > >
> > > > wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> |
> > > @wastesource
> > > > <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
> > > >
> > > > Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
> > > >
> > > > Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole
> use
> > > of
> > > > the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way,
> of
> > > the
> > > > contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> > > > unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> > > > message. If you have received this email in error, please return it
> to
> > > the
> > > > sender.
> > > > --
> > > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > > > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > > >
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jon Free
> >
> > WasteSource
> >
> > 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
> >
> > wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> |
> @wastesource
> > <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
> >
> > Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
> >
> > Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use
> of
> > the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of
> the
> > contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> > unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> > message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to
> the
> > sender.
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From me at amias.net  Mon Mar 16 14:35:24 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:35:24 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <1426505810434.97999@lewdewe.com>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1426505810434.97999@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XWYqk9+ce1sUM9CZjHhB06z3TFw_vhq3fkqPUHH069Guw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Eric,

My understanding was the pensions payments are tax free on the way in and
out so payouts from pensions needed
to be controlled so that they didn't just become a tax loophole. Although
the government has just busted this to
some extent by allowing people to have a lump sum instead of regular
payouts , this might have an effect on the fiscal mechanics of your pension
fund if too many other members do this at the wrong time.

All pensions should be cashable (with a notice period) but IIRC you have to
settle the tax bill if you do it before retirement. Not sure how this works
with employer contributed funds.

A simple ethical low risk alternative to a pension would be an invest in
bristol energy coop shares
http://www.bristolenergy.coop/share-offer-3.html , i haven't done this
myself but plan to soon.

obviously this is just my opinion and you should check it yourself before
doing anything based on it.

Cheers
Amias


On 16 March 2015 at 11:36, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com> wrote:

> Hi Amias,
>
> You make some good points there about ethics etc. Thanks for that.
>
> There are a few schemes around Europe and elsewhere that invest only in
> precious metals, but the performance of those long term is very much open
> to debate.
>
> Is it the case that once you had your money over to a pension scheme you
> can't get it back again, i.e. they permanently keep the saved capital?
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Erik
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of
> Amias Channer <me at amias.net>
> Sent: 16 March 2015 11:19
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] Pensions
>
>
> Personally i'm covering this type of thing by paying off my mortgage on the
> eco house i've just bought so that i only need a very small pension as it
> has negligable bills.  YMMV and i'm obviously not a financial advisor
> etc.....
>
> Cheers
> Amias
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From rick.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 14:43:44 2015
From: rick.edwards at gmail.com (Rick Edwards)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:43:44 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CAMgU7XWYqk9+ce1sUM9CZjHhB06z3TFw_vhq3fkqPUHH069Guw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1426505810434.97999@lewdewe.com>
 <CAMgU7XWYqk9+ce1sUM9CZjHhB06z3TFw_vhq3fkqPUHH069Guw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHx1AVZtGaAOpUdaPjiq1VLPuiunqcw+A8jU--ktJRJbotUNjA@mail.gmail.com>

You don't pay tax on payments into a pension but you do pay tax when you
receive your pension. ISA's work differently in that you have already paid
tax on the money you put in and the interest it earns is tax free, so you
pay no tax when you withdraw anything.


On 16 March 2015 at 14:35, Amias Channer <me at amias.net> wrote:

> Hello Eric,
>
> My understanding was the pensions payments are tax free on the way in and
> out so payouts from pensions needed
> to be controlled so that they didn't just become a tax loophole.

From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Mon Mar 16 12:28:31 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:28:31 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CA+0cfc1GV+pv_7uC0f+qhsM0Zoic+K9af0pn47=z=Y882EvVUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D12C6EA1.14B8A5%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>,
 <CA+0cfc1GV+pv_7uC0f+qhsM0Zoic+K9af0pn47=z=Y882EvVUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1426508928870.12400@lewdewe.com>

Hi Trevor,

Could you please tell me a bit more about what Hargreaves Lansdown do for someone like yourself who manages their own savings and investments?

If you can recommend any particular books or info for DIY retirement investment then that is always much appreciated.

Thanks!


Regards,
Erik


I've been with Hargreaves Lansdown for a while and they are OK (if you were
thinking of going down the self managed route).

Good luck,
Trev

From trevorgrichards at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 15:28:05 2015
From: trevorgrichards at gmail.com (Trevor Richards)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 15:28:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <1426508928870.12400@lewdewe.com>
References: <D12C6EA1.14B8A5%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
 <CA+0cfc1GV+pv_7uC0f+qhsM0Zoic+K9af0pn47=z=Y882EvVUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1426508928870.12400@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <CA+0cfc3L6h69FD7bFbqNfLxhSK1bhJbRhrkM-KDi7YrYJtpMLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Erik,

Hargreaves Lansdown will let you open up an ISA or a SIPP and manage your
portfolio online. Personally I've got my savings in an ISA as I'm a long
way off from retirement and didn't want all my savings tied up in a SIPP
although I believe that it's a more tax efficient option.

They are based in Bristol and were pretty easy to talk to on the couple of
times I've needed them. They also look reasonably competitive in terms of
charges (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/cheap-sipps). You can
hold a combination of index based funds and actively managed funds.

The following book has come highly recommended to me but I must admit I
haven't got round to reading it yet:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0273785370

It's not specific to pensions but apparently a really solid grounding and
does cover pensions.

Hope that helps!
Trev

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com>
wrote:

> Hi Trevor,
>
> Could you please tell me a bit more about what Hargreaves Lansdown do for
> someone like yourself who manages their own savings and investments?
>
> If you can recommend any particular books or info for DIY retirement
> investment then that is always much appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Regards,
> Erik
>
>
> I've been with Hargreaves Lansdown for a while and they are OK (if you were
> thinking of going down the self managed route).
>
> Good luck,
> Trev
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From jamie at linuxufo.com  Mon Mar 16 20:11:48 2015
From: jamie at linuxufo.com (James Andrews)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:11:48 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>

I am not interested in a PHP job but I am interested in the designation of
"mid weight developer"

I would guess you are not looking for someone with a moderate body mass
index but what are you looking for?

If you are looking for someone with 2 years experience or so why not just
say?

If you are looking for someone to be an all rounder why just say?

If you need someone more experienced than an intern but at a similar rate
of pay probably best to keep that to yourself

Are you really so busy that you don't have time to actually describe
meaningfully what this job is?

Is this "mid weight developer" thing REALLY a valid description of stuff
that people do in the topsy turvy world of PHP?

Thanks

On 16 March 2015 at 12:58, Hugh Parr-Burman <hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hello [_]
>
> We're looking for talented junior or mid-weight developers to join our dev
> team at our Bath based office (only about 10 mins from station).
>
> http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/journal/post/were-hiring-mid-weight-developers
>
>
> Give me a shout if you'd like to chat further.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hugh
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From s.sparkie at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 20:26:42 2015
From: s.sparkie at gmail.com (S Sparkie)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:26:42 +0000
Subject: [_] Creating membership site
Message-ID: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I've taken over a PHP/MySQL based members website that now requires a
membership login area.

Therefore a user can:

1) Create account/password (no need to approval)
2) Once created they can access their profile/admin area which lists
information on competitions they have attended, date and amount paid for
event. They can manage this area. Plus use it to subscribe to newsletters
etc add results/view results etc.

Before I look at coding this is there any framework or CMS (they have
looked at moving to ModX so could I use that for this - I'm not that
familiar with it) that I can use so that I'm not re-inventing the wheel?

Any pointers most appreciated.

Cheers
S

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 20:33:09 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:33:09 +0000
Subject: [_] Creating membership site
In-Reply-To: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2zmKQSjVcxDztUEJhnWOmfx7JT6CNiaRt_+bgFOQQSg9cA@mail.gmail.com>

Concrete5 ( amongst others ) will do this out of the box.

On 16 March 2015 at 20:26, S Sparkie <s.sparkie at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I've taken over a PHP/MySQL based members website that now requires a
> membership login area.
>
> Therefore a user can:
>
> 1) Create account/password (no need to approval)
> 2) Once created they can access their profile/admin area which lists
> information on competitions they have attended, date and amount paid for
> event. They can manage this area. Plus use it to subscribe to newsletters
> etc add results/view results etc.
>
> Before I look at coding this is there any framework or CMS (they have
> looked at moving to ModX so could I use that for this - I'm not that
> familiar with it) that I can use so that I'm not re-inventing the wheel?
>
> Any pointers most appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> S
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Mon Mar 16 20:39:00 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:39:00 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>

Mate, I wouldn't worry about it ...

On 16 March 2015 at 20:11, James Andrews <jamie at linuxufo.com> wrote:

> I am not interested in a PHP job but I am interested in the designation of
> "mid weight developer"
>
> I would guess you are not looking for someone with a moderate body mass
> index but what are you looking for?
>
> If you are looking for someone with 2 years experience or so why not just
> say?
>
> If you are looking for someone to be an all rounder why just say?
>
> If you need someone more experienced than an intern but at a similar rate
> of pay probably best to keep that to yourself
>
> Are you really so busy that you don't have time to actually describe
> meaningfully what this job is?
>
> Is this "mid weight developer" thing REALLY a valid description of stuff
> that people do in the topsy turvy world of PHP?
>
> Thanks
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 12:58, Hugh Parr-Burman <hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello [_]
> >
> > We're looking for talented junior or mid-weight developers to join our
> dev
> > team at our Bath based office (only about 10 mins from station).
> >
> >
> http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/journal/post/were-hiring-mid-weight-developers
> >
> >
> > Give me a shout if you'd like to chat further.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Hugh
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From dajdavies at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 21:02:58 2015
From: dajdavies at gmail.com (Andy Davies)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:02:58 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CAHx1AVZtGaAOpUdaPjiq1VLPuiunqcw+A8jU--ktJRJbotUNjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1426505810434.97999@lewdewe.com>
 <CAMgU7XWYqk9+ce1sUM9CZjHhB06z3TFw_vhq3fkqPUHH069Guw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVZtGaAOpUdaPjiq1VLPuiunqcw+A8jU--ktJRJbotUNjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABbusALWzbd=XeOzqJ_FTN9Nqmx=iiyRXTa-eum1TynsJCKTHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 March 2015 at 14:43, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:

> You don't pay tax on payments into a pension but you do pay tax when you
> receive your pension. ISA's work differently in that you have already paid
> tax on the money you put in and the interest it earns is tax free, so you
> pay no tax when you withdraw anything.
>

To be slightly pedantic?

You might not pay tax on pension contributions but if you pay make them as
an employee from your net salary you will pay National Insurance on them
and if you're a higher rate tax payer you'll need to complete a tax return
to get the extra tax relief.

Of course if you're an employee and you're contributions are made via
salary sacrifice then you don't need to pay the NI or reclaim the tax.

Employer contributions are tax free too, so if you're running your own
company you want that to make you're pension contributions for you!

Cheers

Andy

From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 21:13:41 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:13:41 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <CABbusALWzbd=XeOzqJ_FTN9Nqmx=iiyRXTa-eum1TynsJCKTHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAGKubKJtq3W1tR_=pS0af1DMA11YRcdrBPqENx8mNZ03MBHVrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMgU7XVKU8iffykRKsYDqxzfcWTcFNYzNasA=rtuEvOy46hbdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1426505810434.97999@lewdewe.com>
 <CAMgU7XWYqk9+ce1sUM9CZjHhB06z3TFw_vhq3fkqPUHH069Guw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVZtGaAOpUdaPjiq1VLPuiunqcw+A8jU--ktJRJbotUNjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABbusALWzbd=XeOzqJ_FTN9Nqmx=iiyRXTa-eum1TynsJCKTHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXddtNjVzy3m__2WvOf4twcJkN75rZ+z0ARQV=Hkf2V+hkw@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 March 2015 at 21:02, Andy Davies <dajdavies at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 16 March 2015 at 14:43, Rick Edwards <rick.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> To be slightly pedantic...
>
> You might not pay tax on pension contributions but if you pay make them as
> an employee from your net salary you will pay National Insurance on them
> and if you're a higher rate tax payer you'll need to complete a tax return
> to get the extra tax relief.
>

If you know how much your personal contributions will be for the year you
can get the tax office to amend your tax code, get a bigger personal
allowance and avoid the tax return.

From damian.webber at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 21:40:19 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:40:19 +0000
Subject: [_] Creating membership site
In-Reply-To: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2126982863-1426542020-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-842059651-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>

Wakanda is worth looking at, although it's not PHP - a nice ECMA compliant framework with decent data abstraction

Cloud version coming v.soon as well

D

Sent from my Vertu.

-----Original Message-----
From: S Sparkie <s.sparkie at gmail.com>
Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:26:42 
To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Creating membership site

Hi there,

I've taken over a PHP/MySQL based members website that now requires a
membership login area.

Therefore a user can:

1) Create account/password (no need to approval)
2) Once created they can access their profile/admin area which lists
information on competitions they have attended, date and amount paid for
event. They can manage this area. Plus use it to subscribe to newsletters
etc add results/view results etc.

Before I look at coding this is there any framework or CMS (they have
looked at moving to ModX so could I use that for this - I'm not that
familiar with it) that I can use so that I'm not re-inventing the wheel?

Any pointers most appreciated.

Cheers
S
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From davem at circle-interactive.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 09:11:54 2015
From: davem at circle-interactive.co.uk (David Moreton)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:11:54 +0000
Subject: [_] Creating membership site
In-Reply-To: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3ECF5ABC-9BD7-4D97-AF56-555B7290D02C@circle-interactive.co.uk>

Look at Drupal and CiviCRM: Civi has built in membership management, there is member-role sync with Drupal and you can give Drupal users webforms to update profiles and views to see all kinds of Civi data.

Hope that helps

Dave
 
> On 16 Mar 2015, at 20:26, S Sparkie <s.sparkie at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I've taken over a PHP/MySQL based members website that now requires a
> membership login area.
> 
> Therefore a user can:
> 
> 1) Create account/password (no need to approval)
> 2) Once created they can access their profile/admin area which lists
> information on competitions they have attended, date and amount paid for
> event. They can manage this area. Plus use it to subscribe to newsletters
> etc add results/view results etc.
> 
> Before I look at coding this is there any framework or CMS (they have
> looked at moving to ModX so could I use that for this - I'm not that
> familiar with it) that I can use so that I'm not re-inventing the wheel?
> 
> Any pointers most appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> S
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

Circle Interactive Ltd

Telephone: 0117 909 6967
www.circle-interactive.co.uk <http://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/>
twitter.com/#!/circle_int <http://twitter.com/#!/circle_int>

Circle Interactive Ltd  is a company registered in England
Registered Address: 1 Osborne Rd, Bristol, BS3 1PR 
Company Number: 05540067  VAT Number: 862693490




From s.sparkie at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 09:13:01 2015
From: s.sparkie at gmail.com (S Sparkie)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 09:13:01 +0000
Subject: [_] Creating membership site
In-Reply-To: <2126982863-1426542020-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-842059651-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
References: <CAMWdtgdjNzqbF4=QtbXUsEB8vR7AY4kJc2-9qEK0=phP6dNUcA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2126982863-1426542020-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-842059651-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAMWdtgegJJgSfrv3a+sqg=NeXDzU3UWXnUe0DtSouq+JkqvVzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the replies - been looking at Concrete5 (which I'd not heard of)
and looks promising...

Cheers
S

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Wakanda is worth looking at, although it's not PHP - a nice ECMA compliant
> framework with decent data abstraction
>
> Cloud version coming v.soon as well
>
> D
>
> Sent from my Vertu.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: S Sparkie <s.sparkie at gmail.com>
> Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:26:42
> To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
> Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] Creating membership site
>
> Hi there,
>
> I've taken over a PHP/MySQL based members website that now requires a
> membership login area.
>
> Therefore a user can:
>
> 1) Create account/password (no need to approval)
> 2) Once created they can access their profile/admin area which lists
> information on competitions they have attended, date and amount paid for
> event. They can manage this area. Plus use it to subscribe to newsletters
> etc add results/view results etc.
>
> Before I look at coding this is there any framework or CMS (they have
> looked at moving to ModX so could I use that for this - I'm not that
> familiar with it) that I can use so that I'm not re-inventing the wheel?
>
> Any pointers most appreciated.
>
> Cheers
> S
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From abrahamster at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 10:06:38 2015
From: abrahamster at gmail.com (Dave Abraham)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 10:06:38 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>

"*mid weight developer*" - an experienced *developer* that costs less than
a *developer* or *senior developer* but has exactly the same level
of knowledge.
we cant afford a *developer*, I know lets hire a "*mid weight developer*"
we might get lucky.
*mid weight developers* - people that develop exactly the same stuff at a
lower cost then developers

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Nick Clarkson <
nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk> wrote:

> Mate, I wouldn't worry about it ...
>
> On 16 March 2015 at 20:11, James Andrews <jamie at linuxufo.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not interested in a PHP job but I am interested in the designation
> of
> > "mid weight developer"
> >
> > I would guess you are not looking for someone with a moderate body mass
> > index but what are you looking for?
> >
> > If you are looking for someone with 2 years experience or so why not just
> > say?
> >
> > If you are looking for someone to be an all rounder why just say?
> >
> > If you need someone more experienced than an intern but at a similar rate
> > of pay probably best to keep that to yourself
> >
> > Are you really so busy that you don't have time to actually describe
> > meaningfully what this job is?
> >
> > Is this "mid weight developer" thing REALLY a valid description of stuff
> > that people do in the topsy turvy world of PHP?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On 16 March 2015 at 12:58, Hugh Parr-Burman <hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello [_]
> > >
> > > We're looking for talented junior or mid-weight developers to join our
> > dev
> > > team at our Bath based office (only about 10 mins from station).
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/journal/post/were-hiring-mid-weight-developers
> > >
> > >
> > > Give me a shout if you'd like to chat further.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Hugh
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From russf at topia.com  Tue Mar 17 10:34:53 2015
From: russf at topia.com (Russ Ferriday)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 10:34:53 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>

Nice thread.
Unicorn-lite?
--r
On 17 Mar 2015, at 10:06, Dave Abraham <abrahamster at gmail.com> wrote:

> "*mid weight developer*" - an experienced *developer* that costs less than
> a *developer* or *senior developer* but has exactly the same level
> of knowledge.
> we cant afford a *developer*, I know lets hire a "*mid weight developer*"
> we might get lucky.
> *mid weight developers* - people that develop exactly the same stuff at a
> lower cost then developers
> 
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Nick Clarkson <
> nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Mate, I wouldn't worry about it ...
>> 
>> On 16 March 2015 at 20:11, James Andrews <jamie at linuxufo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am not interested in a PHP job but I am interested in the designation
>> of
>>> "mid weight developer"
>>> 
>>> I would guess you are not looking for someone with a moderate body mass
>>> index but what are you looking for?
>>> 
>>> If you are looking for someone with 2 years experience or so why not just
>>> say?
>>> 
>>> If you are looking for someone to be an all rounder why just say?
>>> 
>>> If you need someone more experienced than an intern but at a similar rate
>>> of pay probably best to keep that to yourself
>>> 
>>> Are you really so busy that you don't have time to actually describe
>>> meaningfully what this job is?
>>> 
>>> Is this "mid weight developer" thing REALLY a valid description of stuff
>>> that people do in the topsy turvy world of PHP?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> On 16 March 2015 at 12:58, Hugh Parr-Burman <hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello [_]
>>>> 
>>>> We're looking for talented junior or mid-weight developers to join our
>>> dev
>>>> team at our Bath based office (only about 10 mins from station).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/journal/post/were-hiring-mid-weight-developers
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Give me a shout if you'd like to chat further.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> Hugh
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>> 
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

Russ Ferriday -- Software Product Architect, Developer, Mentor
CEO Topia Systems Ltd.
russf at topia.com  --  +44 7429 518822  









From dantagg at wildmanherring.com  Tue Mar 17 12:12:58 2015
From: dantagg at wildmanherring.com (Dan Tagg)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 12:12:58 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social media
	integration
Message-ID: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Anyone got any advice please for a framework / set of Wordpress templates /
drupal modules etc that is easy to template, has an intuitive map interface
and integrates well with Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Oh and that use
to build a website with that sort of functionality in a few days.

Cheers

Dan

-- 
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374

From leopitt at function-design.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 12:17:41 2015
From: leopitt at function-design.co.uk (Leo Pitt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 12:17:41 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social
 media integration
In-Reply-To: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>

Drupal's Openlayers module may help - 
https://www.drupal.org/project/openlayers

I've only scratched the surface of it but it looks to be highly 
customizable.

On 17/03/2015 12:12, Dan Tagg wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone got any advice please for a framework / set of Wordpress templates /
> drupal modules etc that is easy to template, has an intuitive map interface
> and integrates well with Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Oh and that use
> to build a website with that sort of functionality in a few days.
>
> Cheers
>
> Dan
>



From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Tue Mar 17 12:31:57 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 12:31:57 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social
	media integration
In-Reply-To: <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>
References: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEh=cirDiu6xu45wND95hqcZRp_j190F+ea8SwJG=Ly7hzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

I've done a fair amount of work with Drupal and OpenLayers, it's a bit of a
beast but when used in the right way works well. There's a crazy number of
options in the configuration process, some of it is covered by available
tutorials and some by trial and error.

I've had some fun and games trying to get it to work with different mapping
services but overall I've been pleased with it. I built this (amongst other
things).

http://www.bestroast.com/

As for the Social Integration, it really depends upon what you have in mind
:)

I'd be happy to talk it through off-list if you have more detail.

cheers,

mark


On 17 March 2015 at 12:17, Leo Pitt <leopitt at function-design.co.uk> wrote:

> Drupal's Openlayers module may help - https://www.drupal.org/
> project/openlayers
>
> I've only scratched the surface of it but it looks to be highly
> customizable.
>
> On 17/03/2015 12:12, Dan Tagg wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anyone got any advice please for a framework / set of Wordpress templates
>> /
>> drupal modules etc that is easy to template, has an intuitive map
>> interface
>> and integrates well with Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Oh and that use
>> to build a website with that sort of functionality in a few days.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From carl at sargunar.com  Tue Mar 17 14:57:25 2015
From: carl at sargunar.com (Carl Sargunar)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 14:57:25 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>

There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_] at
the moment. Brilliant stuff :D

I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few pounds,
and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this
year?

Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally chilled
out fella
@csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis> www.sargunar.com

From davehodg at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 15:02:55 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (David Hodgkinson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:02:55 +0000
Subject: [_] Site requirement
Message-ID: <DA3E2E6F-783D-4797-8333-E3B912D56D2C@gmail.com>


The IA I want to model:

I have parent orgs, running events.
Parents may have one or more locations on one or more days.
I have child orgs attending events of one or more parent.

Both parents and children have their own blogs, optionally mailing lists.
Children attend one or more location events of parent.
Parents summarise events with attendees.

Is there anything our of the box out there? A Wordpress plugin maybe? :)




From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 15:13:26 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:13:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I'm a lean specialist....

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Carl Sargunar
Sent: 17 March 2015 14:57
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends

There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_] at the moment. Brilliant stuff :D

I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few pounds, and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this year?

Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally chilled out fella @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis> www.sargunar.com
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From simon.holliday at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 16:12:03 2015
From: simon.holliday at gmail.com (Simon Holliday)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:12:03 +0000
Subject: [_] Two full-time dev positions available - back-end and mobile
Message-ID: <CAKygCB6mCB=o-nGOfFVLcCvA7ROoVQtLcSOFYC1+r=yTOEHaBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Long time no post.

We're looking for two more awesome developers to join us in improving the
state of online video advertising - a back-end dev and a lead mobile dev.

Job roles are here:

http://coull.com/about/jobs/back-end-developer-bristol-uk
http://coull.com/about/jobs/lead-mobile-developer

We don't make websites and you won't get bored.

Please get in touch with me via the email address at the bottom of those
pages if you're up for it.

Thanks,

Si.

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 16:12:07 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:12:07 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social
	media integration
In-Reply-To: <CA+=VEh=cirDiu6xu45wND95hqcZRp_j190F+ea8SwJG=Ly7hzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>
 <CA+=VEh=cirDiu6xu45wND95hqcZRp_j190F+ea8SwJG=Ly7hzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzgPSc6-7DfzYbMAH1m7Jb1GfpPdueOGJ0cH0NL9eopdMg@mail.gmail.com>

Oi! Mr Chitty what's the game?

Great site.

But sign up for more filters? I did and there are no more filters. Duped ;)

Steve

On 17 March 2015 at 12:31, Mark Chitty <mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com> wrote:
> Hi Dan,
>
> I've done a fair amount of work with Drupal and OpenLayers, it's a bit of a
> beast but when used in the right way works well. There's a crazy number of
> options in the configuration process, some of it is covered by available
> tutorials and some by trial and error.
>
> I've had some fun and games trying to get it to work with different mapping
> services but overall I've been pleased with it. I built this (amongst other
> things).
>
> http://www.bestroast.com/
>
> As for the Social Integration, it really depends upon what you have in mind
> :)
>
> I'd be happy to talk it through off-list if you have more detail.
>
> cheers,
>
> mark
>
>
> On 17 March 2015 at 12:17, Leo Pitt <leopitt at function-design.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Drupal's Openlayers module may help - https://www.drupal.org/
>> project/openlayers
>>
>> I've only scratched the surface of it but it looks to be highly
>> customizable.
>>
>> On 17/03/2015 12:12, Dan Tagg wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Anyone got any advice please for a framework / set of Wordpress templates
>>> /
>>> drupal modules etc that is easy to template, has an intuitive map
>>> interface
>>> and integrates well with Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Oh and that use
>>> to build a website with that sort of functionality in a few days.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Chitty
> thisLiquidSpace Ltd
> Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
> -
> web: thisliquidspace.com
> email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
> skype: markchitty
> mobile: 0777 3392821
> -
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 16:22:07 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:22:07 +0000
Subject: [_] Annual Charity Begging
Message-ID: <52390fa01d8848b9ae34b0f85239c842@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

Hello lovely, generous, benevolent [_]

It's that time again! This year I'm running two marathons and also competing (in the loosest sense of the word) in the Snowdon Race. Regular listeners may recall I broken my elbow during the Snowdon race last year, although I still managed to finish the race and then drive 5 hours back to A&E in Bristol!!

It would be wonderful if you would be kind enough to sponsor me (and my running pal Marc) , we're running in support of The Samaritans again.

https://www.justgiving.com/marcandstew/

Thank you very much in advance.

Stewart (& Marc)



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From gabrielthornton at guicreative.com  Tue Mar 17 16:09:50 2015
From: gabrielthornton at guicreative.com (Gabriel Thornton)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:09:50 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>

I'm a welterweight.

On 17/03/2015 15:13, Keith Jackson wrote:
> I'm a lean specialist....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Carl Sargunar
> Sent: 17 March 2015 14:57
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
>
> There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_] at the moment. Brilliant stuff :D
>
> I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few pounds, and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this year?
>
> Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally chilled out fella @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis> www.sargunar.com
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



From nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 16:50:12 2015
From: nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk (Nick Clarkson)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:50:12 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a lightweight

On 17 March 2015 at 16:09, Gabriel Thornton <gabrielthornton at guicreative.com
> wrote:

> I'm a welterweight.
>
>
> On 17/03/2015 15:13, Keith Jackson wrote:
>
>> I'm a lean specialist....
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
>> Behalf Of Carl Sargunar
>> Sent: 17 March 2015 14:57
>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>> Subject: Re: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
>>
>> There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_] at
>> the moment. Brilliant stuff :D
>>
>> I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few pounds,
>> and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this
>> year?
>>
>> Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally
>> chilled out fella @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis>
>> www.sargunar.com
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From peter at sparkdata.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 16:34:50 2015
From: peter at sparkdata.co.uk (Peter Marshall)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:34:50 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
Message-ID: <34e271c346a14bb9a0fe82030552b2fd@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>

> I'm a lean specialist....
>
I'm not that lean, but I am quite mean - take quite an effort to get me to get the round in, I can tell you..


Peter Marshall

0117 915 9673


Quay Side, 40-58 Hotwell Road,
Bristol, BS8 4UQ
T: 0117 907 9921
W: www.sparkdata.co.uk





From hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk  Tue Mar 17 17:07:31 2015
From: hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk (Hugh Parr-Burman)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 17:07:31 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok ok!!!! I've had a fair lesson of poorly describing a job role.

To put it in another way we're looking for a permanent front-end developer
who is neither a Junior nor Senior front-end developer... how you qualify
that I'm not sure. Perhaps I simply should have asked is "Is anyone a web
developer looking for a job? We have one, let's talk."

Right... well that's that... I'm off to suggest we look at our job
description again (which I didn't write!)



On 17 March 2015 at 16:50, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
wrote:

> I'm a lightweight
>
> On 17 March 2015 at 16:09, Gabriel Thornton <
> gabrielthornton at guicreative.com
> > wrote:
>
> > I'm a welterweight.
> >
> >
> > On 17/03/2015 15:13, Keith Jackson wrote:
> >
> >> I'm a lean specialist....
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> >> Behalf Of Carl Sargunar
> >> Sent: 17 March 2015 14:57
> >> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> >> Subject: Re: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
> >>
> >> There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_]
> at
> >> the moment. Brilliant stuff :D
> >>
> >> I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few
> pounds,
> >> and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this
> >> year?
> >>
> >> Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally
> >> chilled out fella @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis>
> >> www.sargunar.com
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> >> mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

*Hugh Parr-Burman*

07813979477

[image: Mr B & Friends]

Mr B & Friends Creative Ltd, 4 Palace Yard Mews, Bath BA1 2NH United Kingdom
mrbandfriends.co.uk <http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/>  |  like us on
facebook <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-B-Friends/114232438685367>
 |   follow
us on twitter <https://twitter.com/MrBandFriends>

This message, including any attachments, may contain privileged and
confidential information intended only for the person(s) named. Any use,
distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us at
it at mrbandfriends.co.uk Neither Mr B & Friends nor the sender accepts any
liability or responsibility for viruses and it is the recipient's
responsibility to scan any attachments.

From gabrielthornton at guicreative.com  Tue Mar 17 17:44:38 2015
From: gabrielthornton at guicreative.com (Gabriel Thornton)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 17:44:38 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55086806.90406@guicreative.com>

I would to it refer to it as Middle-Weight Front-end Developer role...

On 17/03/2015 17:07, Hugh Parr-Burman wrote:
> Ok ok!!!! I've had a fair lesson of poorly describing a job role.
>
> To put it in another way we're looking for a permanent front-end developer
> who is neither a Junior nor Senior front-end developer... how you qualify
> that I'm not sure. Perhaps I simply should have asked is "Is anyone a web
> developer looking for a job? We have one, let's talk."
>
> Right... well that's that... I'm off to suggest we look at our job
> description again (which I didn't write!)
>
>
>
> On 17 March 2015 at 16:50, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm a lightweight
>>
>> On 17 March 2015 at 16:09, Gabriel Thornton <
>> gabrielthornton at guicreative.com
>>> wrote:
>>> I'm a welterweight.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17/03/2015 15:13, Keith Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm a lean specialist....
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
>>>> Behalf Of Carl Sargunar
>>>> Sent: 17 March 2015 14:57
>>>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>>>> Subject: Re: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_]
>> at
>>>> the moment. Brilliant stuff :D
>>>>
>>>> I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few
>> pounds,
>>>> and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this
>>>> year?
>>>>
>>>> Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally
>>>> chilled out fella @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis>
>>>> www.sargunar.com
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>
>



From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Tue Mar 17 18:26:42 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 18:26:42 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social
	media integration
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzgPSc6-7DfzYbMAH1m7Jb1GfpPdueOGJ0cH0NL9eopdMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>
 <CA+=VEh=cirDiu6xu45wND95hqcZRp_j190F+ea8SwJG=Ly7hzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzgPSc6-7DfzYbMAH1m7Jb1GfpPdueOGJ0cH0NL9eopdMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEh=UxrhOyUG+e6MQhzke4ZAxHGdej-0HSvfFNOTXqa7wug@mail.gmail.com>

ha, it's not that you get more filters, it's the fact that the ones you
have work :)

point taken though, I've been meaning to rework them to refine the offering
a little more. it's tricky drawing a fine line between showing what's on
offer and encouraging people to log in to use it. was thinking of a little
'log-in to use this' dialog once a user clicks on a drop down.

what do you think?

m

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oi! Mr Chitty what's the game?
>
> Great site.
>
> But sign up for more filters? I did and there are no more filters. Duped ;)
>
> Steve
>
> On 17 March 2015 at 12:31, Mark Chitty <mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > I've done a fair amount of work with Drupal and OpenLayers, it's a bit
> of a
> > beast but when used in the right way works well. There's a crazy number
> of
> > options in the configuration process, some of it is covered by available
> > tutorials and some by trial and error.
> >
> > I've had some fun and games trying to get it to work with different
> mapping
> > services but overall I've been pleased with it. I built this (amongst
> other
> > things).
> >
> > http://www.bestroast.com/
> >
> > As for the Social Integration, it really depends upon what you have in
> mind
> > :)
> >
> > I'd be happy to talk it through off-list if you have more detail.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > mark
> >
> >
> > On 17 March 2015 at 12:17, Leo Pitt <leopitt at function-design.co.uk
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> >> Drupal's Openlayers module may help - https://www.drupal.org/
> >> project/openlayers
> >>
> >> I've only scratched the surface of it but it looks to be highly
> >> customizable.
> >>
> >> On 17/03/2015 12:12, Dan Tagg wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> Anyone got any advice please for a framework / set of Wordpress
> templates
> >>> /
> >>> drupal modules etc that is easy to template, has an intuitive map
> >>> interface
> >>> and integrates well with Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Oh and that
> use
> >>> to build a website with that sort of functionality in a few days.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> >> mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Chitty
> > thisLiquidSpace Ltd
> > Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
> > -
> > web: thisliquidspace.com
> > email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com <javascript:;>
> > skype: markchitty
> > mobile: 0777 3392821
> > -
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>


-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From russf at topia.com  Tue Mar 17 19:08:30 2015
From: russf at topia.com (Russ Ferriday)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 19:08:30 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>

I think the Job description is pretty clear.

http://www.bristolmedia.co.uk/job/3127/mid-weight-developer

But then you had to go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like, 'Working knowledge of PHP best practices'.

I hope the unicorn materialises.

--r
On 17 Mar 2015, at 17:07, Hugh Parr-Burman <hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk> wrote:

> Ok ok!!!! I've had a fair lesson of poorly describing a job role.
> 
> To put it in another way we're looking for a permanent front-end developer
> who is neither a Junior nor Senior front-end developer... how you qualify
> that I'm not sure. Perhaps I simply should have asked is "Is anyone a web
> developer looking for a job? We have one, let's talk."
> 
> Right... well that's that... I'm off to suggest we look at our job
> description again (which I didn't write!)
> 
> 
> 
> On 17 March 2015 at 16:50, Nick Clarkson <nclarkson at theagencyonline.co.uk>
> wrote:
> 
>> I'm a lightweight
>> 
>> On 17 March 2015 at 16:09, Gabriel Thornton <
>> gabrielthornton at guicreative.com
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm a welterweight.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 17/03/2015 15:13, Keith Jackson wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm a lean specialist....
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
>>>> Behalf Of Carl Sargunar
>>>> Sent: 17 March 2015 14:57
>>>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>>>> Subject: Re: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
>>>> 
>>>> There are a lot of threads that need a decent supply of Popcorn on [_]
>> at
>>>> the moment. Brilliant stuff :D
>>>> 
>>>> I'm probably a mid weight developer, but I'm trying to lose a few
>> pounds,
>>>> and am training for the Bristol half marathon. Anyone else doing it this
>>>> year?
>>>> 
>>>> Freelance developer, cyclist, long-haired consultant and generally
>>>> chilled out fella @csmadethis <http://www.twitter.com/csmadethis>
>>>> www.sargunar.com
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>>> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Hugh Parr-Burman*
> 
> 07813979477
> 
> [image: Mr B & Friends]
> 
> Mr B & Friends Creative Ltd, 4 Palace Yard Mews, Bath BA1 2NH United Kingdom
> mrbandfriends.co.uk <http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/>  |  like us on
> facebook <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-B-Friends/114232438685367>
> |   follow
> us on twitter <https://twitter.com/MrBandFriends>
> 
> This message, including any attachments, may contain privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the person(s) named. Any use,
> distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly
> prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us at
> it at mrbandfriends.co.uk Neither Mr B & Friends nor the sender accepts any
> liability or responsibility for viruses and it is the recipient's
> responsibility to scan any attachments.
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

Russ Ferriday -- Software Product Architect, Developer, Mentor
CEO Topia Systems Ltd.
russf at topia.com  --  +44 7429 518822  









From nico at nicoburns.com  Tue Mar 17 21:58:13 2015
From: nico at nicoburns.com (Nico Burns)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 21:58:13 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
Message-ID: <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to say that I thought the "Mid-Weight" description was
perfectly valid and informative.

From davem at circle-interactive.co.uk  Wed Mar 18 08:34:25 2015
From: davem at circle-interactive.co.uk (David Moreton)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:34:25 +0000
Subject: [_] two more jobs
Message-ID: <818CA622-B4F4-4947-9D66-0CF2299AED09@circle-interactive.co.uk>

Hi Folks

We?re also looking for two talented people: a sysadmin and a project manager. You can be any weight within reason: we?ll consider people with a couple of years commercial experience up to considerably more and will pay in line with that experience.  

https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/sysadmin <https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/sysadmin>
https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/project-manager <https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/project-manager>

Thanks

Dave

Circle Interactive Ltd

Telephone: 0117 909 6967
www.circle-interactive.co.uk <http://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/>
twitter.com/#!/circle_int <http://twitter.com/#!/circle_int>

Circle Interactive Ltd  is a company registered in England
Registered Address: 1 Osborne Rd, Bristol, BS3 1PR 
Company Number: 05540067  VAT Number: 862693490




From drew at designer-drew.com  Wed Mar 18 07:56:51 2015
From: drew at designer-drew.com (drew)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 07:56:51 +0000
Subject: [_] Work wanted *themer*
Message-ID: <odj2f88yirxs0mpuymghbq3o.1426665411576@email.android.com>

Hi _

I'm looking for at least 3 months freelance or contract theming or front-end work. 

I'm not a 'middle-weight' developer, I don't write programs, but I am a problem solver and can edit multiple languages.

I've just had a poor time with recruitment agencies and rather deal direct, which is rare these days.

Please feel free to contact me off-list.

Drew Pearce
http://www.sulis-interactive.co.uk


Sent from Samsung Mobile

From rick.edwards at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 09:23:19 2015
From: rick.edwards at gmail.com (Rick Edwards)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 09:23:19 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 March 2015 at 21:58, Nico Burns <nico at nicoburns.com> wrote:

> Just wanted to say that I thought the "Mid-Weight" description was
> perfectly valid and informative.
>
>

Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot be
valid :-p

From nigel.legg at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 10:17:46 2015
From: nigel.legg at gmail.com (Nigel Legg)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:17:46 +0000
Subject: [_] Data....
Message-ID: <CADeX7vz+LKE=0us_hpEfJ8zER8ORc8WT7LyEW0xwYh5TKcyK8A@mail.gmail.com>

I am available for short contracts (up to a month), machine learning, data
analysis, text analysis, big data, data Science (?) - python. Bristol area
only.
contact off list.  No agencies please.

Cheers, Nigel
07914 740972

From timwintle at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 10:23:14 2015
From: timwintle at gmail.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:23:14 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <1426508928870.12400@lewdewe.com>
References: <D12C6EA1.14B8A5%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
 , <CA+0cfc1GV+pv_7uC0f+qhsM0Zoic+K9af0pn47=z=Y882EvVUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1426508928870.12400@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <1426674194.31806.29.camel@tim-desktop>

On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 12:28 +0000, Erik Wallace wrote:
> Could you please tell me a bit more about what Hargreaves Lansdown do for someone like yourself who manages their own savings and investments?

I have ISAs and a SIPP with Hargreaves Lansdown..

What do they do:

 * They provide the ISA/SIP wrapper (i.e. they're registered with the
government to handle them etc)

 * They take a (fairly competitive) fee from my accounts for doing that

 * They are the stockbroker for buying/selling assets within those
wrappers - so normal share/bond/fund transaction fees apply (as does the
whole purchase fee/annual fees/loyalty cashback process etc.. I'm
assuming you're used to stockbrokers)

 * They send me several letters/brochures a month telling me that I
should really be giving them more of my money to look after (so they get
more fees)

 *  When I retire, they will try to persuade me to use my pension pot to
buy one of their annuities - although technically I can go with any
annuity provider (or do the lump sum things Mr Osborne introduced last
year).

.. that's fairly much it.


The way that I see it, the main benefits of pensions are:

 * You can put more money in than into ISAs (This isn't so important
since the ISA limit has been increased dramatically...)

 * You don't pay *any* income tax on contributions: E.g. if you're a
higher rate taxpayer and you pay ?60 into your pension, there will
actually be ?80 sitting in your pension, and you will get an extra ?20
deducted off your tax bill.

 * They protect you from making bad short-term decisions and spending
your money before you retire. (Although you can still chose to invest
your pension in a bad way...)


There are also significant downsides:

 * You can't access your money until you either retire, or die (and it's
inherited after a 55% tax deduction)

 * Your investment is at the whim of every government that comes into
power until that point, who can change the rules significantly..


Just as an example, the current *lifetime* allowance is ?1.25 Million.
That sounds like a lot, but for someone retiring in 20 years time that's
the equivalent of about ?312,000 in today's money (allowing for
inflation) - or a total retirement income of ~?10,000 p/a (in todays
money) from an annuity - assuming a 30 year life expectancy after
retirement.

Fairly much all political parties are suggesting they're going to reduce
the lifetime allowance (because talking about a "?1.25 million" limit
sounds like this is only something that affects the super rich, rather
than pensioners on ?10,000 p/a).


A more extreme example of Governments playing with pensions is in
Poland, where the government decided they'd simply take a percentage of
everyone's (semi-private) pension savings to help pay their debts!

Tim



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 10:59:57 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:59:57 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social
	media integration
In-Reply-To: <CA+=VEh=UxrhOyUG+e6MQhzke4ZAxHGdej-0HSvfFNOTXqa7wug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>
 <CA+=VEh=cirDiu6xu45wND95hqcZRp_j190F+ea8SwJG=Ly7hzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzgPSc6-7DfzYbMAH1m7Jb1GfpPdueOGJ0cH0NL9eopdMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=VEh=UxrhOyUG+e6MQhzke4ZAxHGdej-0HSvfFNOTXqa7wug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzhDrQLxFW6Ke2xEx4mpVWGD8fxLyawxv+s5iy+W6BXR+w@mail.gmail.com>

Oh I see,

I thought the filters were restricted, I never read the button label
properly so assumed signing up would get me some useful filters.
The options would make more sense as check boxes rather than drop downs.
Vegetarian:
Any
Yes
How does that qualify? Vegetarian food available or a proper
vegetarian roast (Nut Roast?).

So for me useful filters would be along the lines of:
Days and times.
A lot of places only do roast Sunday lunchtime and have "run out" by 2 or 3pm.
Might be that I'm mad, but I want to find a roast on Saturdays and
during the week. Also would be nice to ave a roast post 3pm.

So if I could filter out the run out of roast by 2/3pm and have roasts
on other days it would be great.

Also price bands.

What else? Ummm.. is it a carvery, a restaurant, a pub, a cafe.

Now why would I sign up? Well if it wasn't Mark's website I would not
have. I'd leave it there, I don't use  Facebook much so wouldn't use
that to authenticate either.

Perhaps star ratings for aspects of the roast?
Potatoes
Veg
Meat
Gravy
Ability to post photos of the roast for people that like to do that
sort of thing.

Already a useful site, I often think of building something similar for
different purposes. Trouble is google search and trip advisor usually
help out and then I don't think about building it.

So where is "bestfriedbreakfast.com" maybe that next?

Steve



On 17 March 2015 at 18:26, Mark Chitty <mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com> wrote:
> ha, it's not that you get more filters, it's the fact that the ones you
> have work :)
>
> point taken though, I've been meaning to rework them to refine the offering
> a little more. it's tricky drawing a fine line between showing what's on
> offer and encouraging people to log in to use it. was thinking of a little
> 'log-in to use this' dialog once a user clicks on a drop down.
>
> what do you think?
>
> m
>
> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oi! Mr Chitty what's the game?
>>
>> Great site.
>>
>> But sign up for more filters? I did and there are no more filters. Duped ;)
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 17 March 2015 at 12:31, Mark Chitty <mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > Hi Dan,
>> >
>> > I've done a fair amount of work with Drupal and OpenLayers, it's a bit
>> of a
>> > beast but when used in the right way works well. There's a crazy number
>> of
>> > options in the configuration process, some of it is covered by available
>> > tutorials and some by trial and error.
>> >
>> > I've had some fun and games trying to get it to work with different
>> mapping
>> > services but overall I've been pleased with it. I built this (amongst
>> other
>> > things).
>> >
>> > http://www.bestroast.com/
>> >
>> > As for the Social Integration, it really depends upon what you have in
>> mind
>> > :)
>> >
>> > I'd be happy to talk it through off-list if you have more detail.
>> >
>> > cheers,
>> >
>> > mark
>> >
>> >
>> > On 17 March 2015 at 12:17, Leo Pitt <leopitt at function-design.co.uk
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Drupal's Openlayers module may help - https://www.drupal.org/
>> >> project/openlayers
>> >>
>> >> I've only scratched the surface of it but it looks to be highly
>> >> customizable.
>> >>
>> >> On 17/03/2015 12:12, Dan Tagg wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi All,
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone got any advice please for a framework / set of Wordpress
>> templates
>> >>> /
>> >>> drupal modules etc that is easy to template, has an intuitive map
>> >>> interface
>> >>> and integrates well with Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter. Oh and that
>> use
>> >>> to build a website with that sort of functionality in a few days.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers
>> >>>
>> >>> Dan
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
>> >> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mark Chitty
>> > thisLiquidSpace Ltd
>> > Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
>> > -
>> > web: thisliquidspace.com
>> > email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com <javascript:;>
>> > skype: markchitty
>> > mobile: 0777 3392821
>> > -
>> > --
>> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Chitty
> thisLiquidSpace Ltd
> Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
> -
> web: thisliquidspace.com
> email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
> skype: markchitty
> mobile: 0777 3392821
> -
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From fiznool at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 11:56:46 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 11:56:46 +0000
Subject: [_] IFA
Message-ID: <CAER4s9Y_8P0=BDFuGwz6n9W2hhkn8_3M0PbwdEBVpg00aVRXXQ@mail.gmail.com>

After the healthy pension discussion I'm feeling the need to get my own in
order, however it all seems a bit confusing to a beginner.

Can anybody recommend an Independent Financial Advisor with experience
helping IT contractors trading as Ltd companies? Looking for some help in
setting up a pension, getting suitable life insurance, etc.

Cheers

Tom

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 12:10:18 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:10:18 +0000
Subject: [_] IFA
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9Y_8P0=BDFuGwz6n9W2hhkn8_3M0PbwdEBVpg00aVRXXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAER4s9Y_8P0=BDFuGwz6n9W2hhkn8_3M0PbwdEBVpg00aVRXXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzja8KjgQThHSMW39wV1A3zkPDmVV3YY+ThbGPgYBNQ78w@mail.gmail.com>

+1
I ought to revisit this and see what I ought to be doing.

Steve

On 18 March 2015 at 11:56, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
> After the healthy pension discussion I'm feeling the need to get my own in
> order, however it all seems a bit confusing to a beginner.
>
> Can anybody recommend an Independent Financial Advisor with experience
> helping IT contractors trading as Ltd companies? Looking for some help in
> setting up a pension, getting suitable life insurance, etc.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tom
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From nicrodgers at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 13:13:42 2015
From: nicrodgers at gmail.com (Nic Rodgers)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:13:42 +0000
Subject: [_] IFA
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzja8KjgQThHSMW39wV1A3zkPDmVV3YY+ThbGPgYBNQ78w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAER4s9Y_8P0=BDFuGwz6n9W2hhkn8_3M0PbwdEBVpg00aVRXXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzja8KjgQThHSMW39wV1A3zkPDmVV3YY+ThbGPgYBNQ78w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANGB9CAde7yHW5Q3t7EEag_EAzRbkuf4a+guO9Och6ezU_vViw@mail.gmail.com>

Contractor Financials are very good at this kind of stuff:
fhttp://www.contractorfinancials.com/


On 18 March 2015 at 12:10, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> +1
> I ought to revisit this and see what I ought to be doing.
>
> Steve
>
> On 18 March 2015 at 11:56, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
> > After the healthy pension discussion I'm feeling the need to get my own
> in
> > order, however it all seems a bit confusing to a beginner.
> >
> > Can anybody recommend an Independent Financial Advisor with experience
> > helping IT contractors trading as Ltd companies? Looking for some help in
> > setting up a pension, getting suitable life insurance, etc.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Tom
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Wed Mar 18 13:57:19 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:57:19 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F1321DFB-2B1A-4376-95C2-B4E0A0EE4057@craigfrancis.co.uk>

Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments... unfortunately work got the better of me the last couple of days.

Phil... thanks for the recommendation, and good to hear you had a good experience with wealth-matters.co.uk (shame about the website, 3.4MB, 141 requests, and too many animations to know what that first page is doing).

James, Martin, likewise... I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest solution, but at the same time it would be nice if the expensive option didn't mix up my notes with someone else, and answered questions rather than sending template emails (which is what got me asking questions).

Stuart... I must admit I was being pessimistic with the numbers. I'm probably going to do that Equity Release thing on the house, and look at other sources of income as well (so not relying completely on a pension). But I'm not sure I'll go as far as including Lottery winnings in that though :-)

Amias... I didn't realise ethical policies were an option, and certainly worth keeping in mind.

Erik... I must admit, I was rounding quite a bit, so hopefully I won't need to change my (relatively simple) lifestyle too much... although the idea of a place with more sun might be nice (says the developer who gets sun burnt at the slightest suggestion of natural light).

Matt... I'll certainly look into doing things myself, but I realise that its probably better if I put money into a simple pot that might not make as much as doing it myself (when it comes to money, I can do the software to keep track of it - but I'm really not cut out for managing it).

Trev... Same again really, I'm not sure I'm in the best place to do this stuff myself, but you are certainly right about the compound interest (one of the reasons the rich stay rich, and your first year of having a mortgage is very depressing in how much you actually pay off).

Andy... Thanks for the rough numbers, and pointing out the difference between Actively Managed Funds and Index Tracking Funds.

Rob... I do wonder if any of them can really see into the future, I was part wondering if they just tried to do corrective changes if things started going badly, but that is pretty much a gamble as well. One of the reasons I'm hesitant over a pension is that my dad basically lost one of his due to mis-management.

Andy... Thanks for the heads up regarding Tax, I'll have to double check with the accountant to see if I need to do anything (admittedly, this was one of the reasons I started looking into a pension, but haven't checked the details yet).

Tim... The ISA/SIPP (Self Invested Personal Pension) approach does sound interesting, although it looks like you need to be more involved in the process.

Thanks again everyone!

Craig



And if anyone is being lazy (and while I have the list to hand), the list of recommendations included:

http://www.wealth-matters.co.uk/
http://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/pensions/
http://www.tomfear.co.uk/index.php/contact-us
http://www.bestinvest.co.uk/
http://www.hl.co.uk/pensions
http://www.contractorfinancials.com/

Chris Watson <Chris at investsouthwest.co.uk>







On 16 Mar 2015, at 10:38, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi [_]
> 
> After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.
> 
> Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.
> 
> I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they will need later in life... and they might have a point.
> 
> Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20 years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
> 
> If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll find down the back of the settee.
> 



From phil at web2wire.com  Wed Mar 18 14:22:54 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:22:54 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <F1321DFB-2B1A-4376-95C2-B4E0A0EE4057@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <F1321DFB-2B1A-4376-95C2-B4E0A0EE4057@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <55098A3E.6090301@web2wire.com>

Hi Craig,

A very useful summary. More threads should do that :)

I will certainly pass on your comments about their website to Wealth 
Matters. As they focus on techies and web types etc I really think they 
should sort that out.

Phil

On 18/03/2015 13:57, Craig Francis wrote:
> Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments... unfortunately work got the better of me the last couple of days.
>
> Phil... thanks for the recommendation, and good to hear you had a good experience with wealth-matters.co.uk (shame about the website, 3.4MB, 141 requests, and too many animations to know what that first page is doing).
>


From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 15:12:09 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:12:09 +0000
Subject: [_] Pensions
In-Reply-To: <F1321DFB-2B1A-4376-95C2-B4E0A0EE4057@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <316ECD70-FAE4-4B74-8B74-47755E97A993@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <F1321DFB-2B1A-4376-95C2-B4E0A0EE4057@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXddoJ=bM+WqN5+ifaH8JofEcti3YNgeHGE6TSnteEW8iyA@mail.gmail.com>

All of the following are SIPP platforms for DIY investing:

http://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/pensions/
http://www.bestinvest.co.uk/
http://www.hl.co.uk/pensions

Unless you plan to keep a constant eye on the stock market or have a unique
investment strategy then you probably want to invest in mutual funds
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_fund> via a SIPP or Stakeholder
pension.  If you are doing this then you want access to the widest
selection of mutual funds at the lowest cost as the underlying investments
are the same.  Cavendish basically resell the Fidelity platform
<https://www.fidelity.co.uk/investor/pensions/fidelity-sipp.page> at a
discount rate and have the cheapest platform fees, no trading charges and
zero exit fees, hence the cheapest SIPP.  You get the same tools (research
& comparison tools, mobile app etc.) as a Fidelity account but at a
discount rate.  The limitation with Cavendish is you have to send a signed
form to a free-post address to make changes to your investments which is
fine if you don't plan to be a day trader.  The SIPP providers have tools
like Fidelities HeadStart portfolio
<https://www.fidelity.co.uk/investor/pensions/opening-sipp/headstart-sipp.page?context=sipp>
or
Best Invest's portfolio builder
<https://select.bestinvest.co.uk/investment-guidance/choose-a-ready-made-investment-portfolio>
to give you an idea of how to choose funds.

There are articles around the web comparing the SIPP platforms like this one
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/sipps/10607824/DIY-pensions-The-cheapest-Sipp-fund-supermarkets.html>
on
the telegraph website.


The others in your list are financial advisers who will review your
finances for you and give advice.  Unless they are philanthropic Robin Hood
type characters you will pay for their services in some form and it would
be probably be better to pay an IFA an up-front lump sum for their time
spent reviewing your situation and then implement their advice yourself
(I'm sure someone mentioned this).  I would definitely avoid a situation
were you are paying an ongoing % as an advisor's fee on-top of your
investment charges, unless they are actually doing something for their
money.

http://www.wealth-matters.co.uk/
http://www.contractorfinancials.com/
http://www.tomfear.co.uk/index.php/contact-us


On 18 March 2015 at 13:57, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments... unfortunately work got
> the better of me the last couple of days.
>
> Phil... thanks for the recommendation, and good to hear you had a good
> experience with wealth-matters.co.uk (shame about the website, 3.4MB, 141
> requests, and too many animations to know what that first page is doing).
>
> James, Martin, likewise... I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest
> solution, but at the same time it would be nice if the expensive option
> didn't mix up my notes with someone else, and answered questions rather
> than sending template emails (which is what got me asking questions).
>
> Stuart... I must admit I was being pessimistic with the numbers. I'm
> probably going to do that Equity Release thing on the house, and look at
> other sources of income as well (so not relying completely on a pension).
> But I'm not sure I'll go as far as including Lottery winnings in that
> though :-)
>
> Amias... I didn't realise ethical policies were an option, and certainly
> worth keeping in mind.
>
> Erik... I must admit, I was rounding quite a bit, so hopefully I won't
> need to change my (relatively simple) lifestyle too much... although the
> idea of a place with more sun might be nice (says the developer who gets
> sun burnt at the slightest suggestion of natural light).
>
> Matt... I'll certainly look into doing things myself, but I realise that
> its probably better if I put money into a simple pot that might not make as
> much as doing it myself (when it comes to money, I can do the software to
> keep track of it - but I'm really not cut out for managing it).
>
> Trev... Same again really, I'm not sure I'm in the best place to do this
> stuff myself, but you are certainly right about the compound interest (one
> of the reasons the rich stay rich, and your first year of having a mortgage
> is very depressing in how much you actually pay off).
>
> Andy... Thanks for the rough numbers, and pointing out the difference
> between Actively Managed Funds and Index Tracking Funds.
>
> Rob... I do wonder if any of them can really see into the future, I was
> part wondering if they just tried to do corrective changes if things
> started going badly, but that is pretty much a gamble as well. One of the
> reasons I'm hesitant over a pension is that my dad basically lost one of
> his due to mis-management.
>
> Andy... Thanks for the heads up regarding Tax, I'll have to double check
> with the accountant to see if I need to do anything (admittedly, this was
> one of the reasons I started looking into a pension, but haven't checked
> the details yet).
>
> Tim... The ISA/SIPP (Self Invested Personal Pension) approach does sound
> interesting, although it looks like you need to be more involved in the
> process.
>
> Thanks again everyone!
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> And if anyone is being lazy (and while I have the list to hand), the list
> of recommendations included:
>
> http://www.wealth-matters.co.uk/
> http://www.cavendishonline.co.uk/pensions/
> http://www.tomfear.co.uk/index.php/contact-us
> http://www.bestinvest.co.uk/
> http://www.hl.co.uk/pensions
> http://www.contractorfinancials.com/
>
> Chris Watson <Chris at investsouthwest.co.uk>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16 Mar 2015, at 10:38, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi [_]
> >
> > After eventually realising that at some point I'm probably going to get
> too old to code, I thought I should look into that slight issue of money.
> >
> > Having briefly talked to a financial adviser about getting a pension
> (I'm freelance), they mentioned a implementation fee of ?780... and an
> on-going adviser charge of 1% per annum to manage the portfolio.
> >
> > I assume that is normal (says he being too lazy to check elsewhere).
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >
> > As an aside... they did mention that people under-estimate how much they
> will need later in life... and they might have a point.
> >
> > Lets say retirement at 70, and optimistically living to 90... so 20
> years, or 240 months... then multiply that by your monthly expenses
> (hopefully if you have a mortgage, that will be gone)... lets say 2k for
> two people needing to eat and heat their home... so about ?480k.
> >
> > If starting to save at 30, that would be 40 years, or 480 months... so
> needing to put aside 1k per month (ignoring tax, costs associated with the
> pension, changes in heating/transport costs, etc)... of which I doubt I'll
> find down the back of the settee.
> >
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Thu Mar 19 05:46:06 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 05:46:06 +0000
Subject: [_] The Holy Grail: Beautiful maps and content with social
	media integration
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzhDrQLxFW6Ke2xEx4mpVWGD8fxLyawxv+s5iy+W6BXR+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPZHCY5xuoCB3jO8=qRVhqOUK0+uW_VTJPA6jMA7vanOmEsg=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <55081B65.3060302@function-design.co.uk>
 <CA+=VEh=cirDiu6xu45wND95hqcZRp_j190F+ea8SwJG=Ly7hzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzgPSc6-7DfzYbMAH1m7Jb1GfpPdueOGJ0cH0NL9eopdMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+=VEh=UxrhOyUG+e6MQhzke4ZAxHGdej-0HSvfFNOTXqa7wug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzhDrQLxFW6Ke2xEx4mpVWGD8fxLyawxv+s5iy+W6BXR+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEhnVvXAzv0HmcWTqg9+JGSwxmvecJOB5xa5R5cG6fC7Mzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday, 18 March 2015, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh I see,
>
> I thought the filters were restricted, I never read the button label
> properly so assumed signing up would get me some useful filters.


That is the plan eventually :)


> The options would make more sense as check boxes rather than drop downs.


Agreed! In the pipeline.


> Vegetarian:



> How does that qualify? Vegetarian food available or a proper
> vegetarian roast (Nut Roast?).


Fair point!


> So for me useful filters would be along the lines of:
> Days and times.


In the pipeline too.

A lot of places only do roast Sunday lunchtime and have "run out" by 2 or
> 3pm.
> Might be that I'm mad, but I want to find a roast on Saturdays and
> during the week.


Really? Wow. You're even more keen on em than me!


> Also would be nice to ave a roast post 3pm.
>
> So if I could filter out the run out of roast by 2/3pm and have roasts
> on other days it would be great


This is definitely in the pipeline, I'm still checking data ...

>
>
Also price bands.


Exists but is hidden at the moment.


> What else? Ummm.. is it a carvery, a restaurant, a pub, a cafe.


Duly noted :)


> Now why would I sign up? Well if it wasn't Mark's website I would not
> have. I'd leave it there, I don't use  Facebook much so wouldn't use
> that to authenticate either.


Much obliged then Steve :) What would make you sign up ?


> Perhaps star ratings for aspects of the roast?
> Potatoes
> Veg
> Meat
> Gravy


Look a bit closer :)


> Ability to post photos of the roast for people that like to do that
> sort of thing.


Also present but hidden ...


> Already a useful site, I often think of building something similar for
> different purposes. Trouble is google search and trip advisor usually
> help out and then I don't think about building it.
>
> So where is "bestfriedbreakfast.com" maybe that next?


Spookily that's exactly the plan, wanna get involved? :)

m



-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From Paddy at spanuk.org.uk  Thu Mar 19 07:19:16 2015
From: Paddy at spanuk.org.uk (Paddy Uglow)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:19:16 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
Message-ID: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2A7@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>

Hi all,
Due to funding cuts, our online courses are going to be left without any tech people to manage them.
Rather than leave a confusion of user account management and a Moodle system, I had the idea of moving all the course text onto our normal CMS web pages, open to view without requiring a login. And for people to type in their answers, confidentially and without requiring a login, I'd create downloadable answer sheets as PDF forms with fillable boxes, which students could fill in, save and email in order to receive a certificate.
How practical do you think this is, particularly on smartphones/tablets? I'm trying to create an unmanaged service where students with limited IT skills won't require tech support (and staff with limited IT skills won't have to provide it to them)

Thanks


From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Thu Mar 19 07:43:38 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 07:43:38 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2A7@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2A7@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEh=wYzC-mUDKq3VSqH+eMyC8UE2fyBr_EJ9erUNhsdn9uw@mail.gmail.com>

hi paddy,

have you considered using something like Udemy?

https://teach.udemy.com/course-creation/

I've not created courses on it, but it's a great platform.

m


On 19 March 2015 at 07:19, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
> Due to funding cuts, our online courses are going to be left without any
> tech people to manage them.
> Rather than leave a confusion of user account management and a Moodle
> system, I had the idea of moving all the course text onto our normal CMS
> web pages, open to view without requiring a login. And for people to type
> in their answers, confidentially and without requiring a login, I'd create
> downloadable answer sheets as PDF forms with fillable boxes, which students
> could fill in, save and email in order to receive a certificate.
> How practical do you think this is, particularly on smartphones/tablets?
> I'm trying to create an unmanaged service where students with limited IT
> skills won't require tech support (and staff with limited IT skills won't
> have to provide it to them)
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From robin at ultrasimplified.com  Thu Mar 19 08:01:45 2015
From: robin at ultrasimplified.com (Robin Layfield)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 08:01:45 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
Message-ID: <etPan.550a855c.19495cff.112@ARYA-2.local>

+1 for Udemy,

It would give you the opportunity to expand the reach of your courses and potentially raise some additional revenue for them (if that's what you are aiming for?)

thanks,
Robin
--
Robin Layfield
UltraSimplified
(mobile) 07807 144386
(twitter) @robinlayfield
(web)?ultrasimplified.com
this email has been ultrasimpli?ed.

On 19 March 2015 at 07:44:36, Mark Chitty (mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com) wrote:

hi paddy,  

have you considered using something like Udemy?  

https://teach.udemy.com/course-creation/  

I've not created courses on it, but it's a great platform.  

m  


On 19 March 2015 at 07:19, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:  

> Hi all,  
> Due to funding cuts, our online courses are going to be left without any  
> tech people to manage them.  
> Rather than leave a confusion of user account management and a Moodle  
> system, I had the idea of moving all the course text onto our normal CMS  
> web pages, open to view without requiring a login. And for people to type  
> in their answers, confidentially and without requiring a login, I'd create  
> downloadable answer sheets as PDF forms with fillable boxes, which students  
> could fill in, save and email in order to receive a certificate.  
> How practical do you think this is, particularly on smartphones/tablets?  
> I'm trying to create an unmanaged service where students with limited IT  
> skills won't require tech support (and staff with limited IT skills won't  
> have to provide it to them)  
>  
> Thanks  
>  
> --  
> underscore_ list info/archive ->  
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore  
>  



--  
Mark Chitty  
thisLiquidSpace Ltd  
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.  
-  
web: thisliquidspace.com  
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  
skype: markchitty  
mobile: 0777 3392821  
-  
--  
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore  

From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 09:30:08 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:30:08 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2A7@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2A7@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
Message-ID: <42A56448-7E88-4EFF-8C58-59F296A4ABA1@craigfrancis.co.uk>

On 19 Mar 2015, at 07:19, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:

> ... type in their answers, confidentially and without requiring a login, I'd create downloadable answer sheets as PDF forms with fillable boxes, which students could fill in, save and email in order to receive a certificate.


Going off on a tangent, I would try to avoid putting data into a PDF.

PDF's are great at preparing output for something like a printer... and they are ok for the kind of things that really need a pretty layout, using a single bundle of stuff (i.e. it can't be a web page).

But it really is a one way process... put data in, the PDF gets larger, and it becomes very difficult to automatically get that data out (other than a pretty picture).

Although, if you have some sensitive information (e.g. credit card details), don't simply put a white box over it, as it won't make it impossible to get to the original content ;-)

But in general, you won't be able to easily extract the answers with a computer (e.g. to put in a database)... you probably won't be able to copy/paste answers by hand (as lines, paragraphs, and sometimes even individual characters can get broken up into multiple components, or just get rendered as an image)... it wont stop people from making edits to the file after it's created... and accessibility features become very difficult (e.g. increasing the font size without zooming, changing the font colour contrast, using a screen reader, etc).

---

If you can, allow the student to fill out the form... then on submission store the answers in a database with their IP address, and a random identifier (like how YouTube gives each video one in the URL).

You can then give them that unique random code, and that can be sent in an email... possibly as a URL which re-displays the questions with their answers (which can be shared with anyone).

And if you are worried about abuse, do simple things like limit how many questionnaires they can answer (maybe 10 in an hour), using their IP address :-)

Craig

From dancourse at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 10:17:16 2015
From: dancourse at gmail.com (Dan Course)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:17:16 +0000
Subject: [_] Job at Uni of Warwick (that's the Midlands btw.!)
Message-ID: <CANHPa46K-dkKmPG9pxf65u5Dbv0fJEAYU8-E6-VAXPyNvaTP2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Alroot Brissles,

Hope you're looking after the city for me! Just thought I'd share this out
incase anyone is planning a similar move to the great middle ground of
England...

There's going to be a full-time dev job going over here at the beautiful
University of Warwick. Details are slightly sparse as Peter's only just
setting it up.

> From: P.F.Rainger at warwick.ac.uk
> I'm looking for a web application developer with experience of api's and
data integration. Ideally web dev experience around open source LAMP stack.
They will have to do basic IT support and desktop support for the centre
too but that's minimal.
> ?28,132 -> ?37,394

If anyone's interested, please do contact him directly on that email he's a
nice chap and has only just started looking.

Please do mention my name "Dan Course" if you get in contact. I don't get
nout' real for it btw. just fake uni networking points :)

Thanks & send me a postcard,

DanC

-- 

[image: Dan Course on about.me]

Dan Course
about.me/dan.course - +44 (0) 7790 13 83 23
  <http://about.me/dan.course>

From Paddy at spanuk.org.uk  Thu Mar 19 10:23:36 2015
From: Paddy at spanuk.org.uk (Paddy Uglow)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:23:36 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1422.1426616805.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
References: <mailman.1422.1426616805.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
Message-ID: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2E8@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>

Thanks for suggestions. Having fought a battle getting the courses into Moodle, I'm not keen to try another LMS, and probably don't have time to convert the courses again.
What I'm after is a way for students to type in answers and store them, but with no server-side stuff: no logins, no user accounts, no database, no mailing list etc. We won't have any tech people (I won't be here for much longer) to deal with login problems or to keep the database secure and spam-free.

I hoped PDFs would be a workable solution... Word docs would probably be even worse? Any ideas for practical multi-platform-compatible data entry/storage?

- Paddy


From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 10:23:34 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:23:34 +0000
Subject: [_] Sales Prospector
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZPambpY=v+GEyrYkTwVyencoUWwz7e6D0AtNzKnwcZ8qA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't suppose anybody here would know someone that might be interested in
a part time salesish role???

http://wastesource.workable.com/jobs/43270

From fiznool at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 10:34:39 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 10:34:39 +0000
Subject: [_] IFA
In-Reply-To: <CANGB9CAde7yHW5Q3t7EEag_EAzRbkuf4a+guO9Och6ezU_vViw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAER4s9Y_8P0=BDFuGwz6n9W2hhkn8_3M0PbwdEBVpg00aVRXXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzja8KjgQThHSMW39wV1A3zkPDmVV3YY+ThbGPgYBNQ78w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANGB9CAde7yHW5Q3t7EEag_EAzRbkuf4a+guO9Och6ezU_vViw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9b2Zrp121zdbeerovUuEakFE0KQJsNg7B3-tUVqp7jCFA@mail.gmail.com>

Looks ideal, thanks for the link.
On 18 Mar 2015 13:14, "Nic Rodgers" <nicrodgers at gmail.com> wrote:

> Contractor Financials are very good at this kind of stuff:
> fhttp://www.contractorfinancials.com/
>
>
> On 18 March 2015 at 12:10, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > +1
> > I ought to revisit this and see what I ought to be doing.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 18 March 2015 at 11:56, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > After the healthy pension discussion I'm feeling the need to get my own
> > in
> > > order, however it all seems a bit confusing to a beginner.
> > >
> > > Can anybody recommend an Independent Financial Advisor with experience
> > > helping IT contractors trading as Ltd companies? Looking for some help
> in
> > > setting up a pension, getting suitable life insurance, etc.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 19 11:48:41 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 11:48:41 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
Message-ID: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey _,

I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
past career.

Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
something?

-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk


From davehodg at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 12:46:15 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (David Hodgkinson)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 12:46:15 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA0A6516-DEB4-42B7-BC11-A35290C1093C@gmail.com>

Get a scrum master certification. It?s all the rage.


> On 19 Mar 2015, at 11:48, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey _,
> 
> I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
> management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
> experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
> IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
> to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
> past career.
> 
> Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
> experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
> something?
> 
> -- 
> Adam Retter
> 
> skype: adam.retter
> tweet: adamretter
> http://www.adamretter.org.uk
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From damian.webber at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 12:54:49 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 12:54:49 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <361613677-1426769685-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1973929158-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>

How about an apprenticeship. I've an apprentice who is just starting a Higher Apprenticeship Project Management assignment. At the end of it he'll have an APM Diploma which is a very good PM qualification to have - he'll have no trouble with career progression (esp with the CV filters that occur in the land of commercial recruitment). Not that we'd let him go - he's very talented. 

Not sure if there's an upper age limit

Failing that, how about an Open University course?

D

Sent from my Vertu.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com>
Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 11:48:41 
To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager

Hey _,

I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
past career.

Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
something?

-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 19 13:06:58 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:06:58 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
In-Reply-To: <361613677-1426769685-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1973929158-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
References: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <361613677-1426769685-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1973929158-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAPK0icjsitUYF8S4cF9GbVgn775+TcSXKy6VfGGDmTLnG5rW0g@mail.gmail.com>

Regards age limits I should mention that he is 34, so whatever
training/course is required I guess he needs to feel comfortable with
it, e.g. not going back to college with teenagers.

On 19 March 2015 at 12:54, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:
> How about an apprenticeship. I've an apprentice who is just starting a Higher Apprenticeship Project Management assignment. At the end of it he'll have an APM Diploma which is a very good PM qualification to have - he'll have no trouble with career progression (esp with the CV filters that occur in the land of commercial recruitment). Not that we'd let him go - he's very talented.
>
> Not sure if there's an upper age limit
>
> Failing that, how about an Open University course?
>
> D
>
> Sent from my Vertu.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com>
> Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 11:48:41
> To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
> Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
>
> Hey _,
>
> I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
> management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
> experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
> IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
> to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
> past career.
>
> Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
> experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
> something?
>
> --
> Adam Retter
>
> skype: adam.retter
> tweet: adamretter
> http://www.adamretter.org.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk


From james at nuvola.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 14:47:31 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 14:47:31 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2E8@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
References: <mailman.1422.1426616805.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
 <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2E8@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
Message-ID: <550AE183.2090909@nuvola.co.uk>

Doesn't quite eliminate your server-side stuff, but Google Forms is 
quite a good way of creating forms and having the answers automatically 
stored in a (restricted access) spreadsheet. The answers can be tied to 
a Google account so that takes care of authentication. Quick and easy to 
set up as well, you don't need too much technical knowledge.

On 19/03/15 10:23, Paddy Uglow wrote:
> Thanks for suggestions. Having fought a battle getting the courses into Moodle, I'm not keen to try another LMS, and probably don't have time to convert the courses again.
> What I'm after is a way for students to type in answers and store them, but with no server-side stuff: no logins, no user accounts, no database, no mailing list etc. We won't have any tech people (I won't be here for much longer) to deal with login problems or to keep the database secure and spam-free.
>
> I hoped PDFs would be a workable solution... Word docs would probably be even worse? Any ideas for practical multi-platform-compatible data entry/storage?
>
> - Paddy
>



From hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 15:37:39 2015
From: hugh at mrbandfriends.co.uk (Hugh Parr-Burman)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:37:39 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0icjsitUYF8S4cF9GbVgn775+TcSXKy6VfGGDmTLnG5rW0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <361613677-1426769685-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1973929158-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
 <CAPK0icjsitUYF8S4cF9GbVgn775+TcSXKy6VfGGDmTLnG5rW0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKcJBrz_=E0WCm3NO9bHC7Hm14=G9NPkfYzMOwgdV4VSVxJ23A@mail.gmail.com>

Highly recommend this training course as an introduction to agile (or go
for lot - pricey but worth it) -
http://www.radtac.co.uk/training/course-portfolio/agile-project-management/agile-project-management-foundation

Although before committing to something that big, if your friend is still
only considering then getting stuck into a few "idiots guide" type books
will be a good starter. He'll probably find that he's done more project
management than he realises.

On 19 March 2015 at 13:06, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Regards age limits I should mention that he is 34, so whatever
> training/course is required I guess he needs to feel comfortable with
> it, e.g. not going back to college with teenagers.
>
> On 19 March 2015 at 12:54, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:
> > How about an apprenticeship. I've an apprentice who is just starting a
> Higher Apprenticeship Project Management assignment. At the end of it he'll
> have an APM Diploma which is a very good PM qualification to have - he'll
> have no trouble with career progression (esp with the CV filters that occur
> in the land of commercial recruitment). Not that we'd let him go - he's
> very talented.
> >
> > Not sure if there's an upper age limit
> >
> > Failing that, how about an Open University course?
> >
> > D
> >
> > Sent from my Vertu.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com>
> > Sender: "Underscore" <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk>
> > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 11:48:41
> > To: <underscore at under-score.org.uk>
> > Reply-To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
> >
> > Hey _,
> >
> > I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
> > management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
> > experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
> > IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
> > to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
> > past career.
> >
> > Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
> > experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
> > something?
> >
> > --
> > Adam Retter
> >
> > skype: adam.retter
> > tweet: adamretter
> > http://www.adamretter.org.uk
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> Adam Retter
>
> skype: adam.retter
> tweet: adamretter
> http://www.adamretter.org.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

*Hugh Parr-Burman*

07813979477

[image: Mr B & Friends]

Mr B & Friends Creative Ltd, 4 Palace Yard Mews, Bath BA1 2NH United Kingdom
mrbandfriends.co.uk <http://www.mrbandfriends.co.uk/>  |  like us on
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From davem at circle-interactive.co.uk  Thu Mar 19 16:09:26 2015
From: davem at circle-interactive.co.uk (David Moreton)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:09:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B77449B0-743B-429C-A4F9-E80271430FAB@circle-interactive.co.uk>

Hi Adam

We?re recruiting for a project manager at the moment and have had a very positive experience in the past with someone who was obviously very organised and had an IT background but didn?t have any formal PM experience. She received on the job training and support from us and now has sadly moved on to other things. So suggest us to your friend: even if we don?t employ him, it will be a useful exercise thinking about presenting himself in a slightly different light.

https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/project-manager <https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/project-manager>

Dave

> On 19 Mar 2015, at 11:48, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey _,
> 
> I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
> management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
> experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
> IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
> to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
> past career.
> 
> Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
> experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
> something?
> 
> -- 
> Adam Retter
> 
> skype: adam.retter
> tweet: adamretter
> http://www.adamretter.org.uk
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

Circle Interactive Ltd

Telephone: 0117 909 6967
www.circle-interactive.co.uk <http://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/>
twitter.com/#!/circle_int <http://twitter.com/#!/circle_int>

Circle Interactive Ltd  is a company registered in England
Registered Address: 1 Osborne Rd, Bristol, BS3 1PR 
Company Number: 05540067  VAT Number: 862693490




From Paddy at spanuk.org.uk  Thu Mar 19 16:09:02 2015
From: Paddy at spanuk.org.uk (Paddy Uglow)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:09:02 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1445.1426779485.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
References: <mailman.1445.1426779485.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
Message-ID: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE432@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>


Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm going to experiment with an RTF worksheet and hopefully find a free app to suggest that'll edit them on iOs and Android, and trust in WordPad / Word Pad / Text Edit for the laptops and desktops.
I wondered about Google Forms too, but couldn't see a good way that people could read or edit their answers at a later date (without having a login); some of the courses take days or weeks to complete.

>Doesn't quite eliminate your server-side stuff, but Google Forms is 
quite a good way of creating forms and having the answers automatically 
stored in a (restricted access) spreadsheet. The answers can be tied to 
a Google account so that takes care of authentication. Quick and easy to 
set up as well, you don't need too much technical knowledge.

On 19/03/15 10:23, Paddy Uglow wrote:
> Thanks for suggestions. Having fought a battle getting the courses into Moodle, I'm not keen to try another LMS, and probably don't have time to convert the courses again.
> What I'm after is a way for students to type in answers and store them, but with no server-side stuff: no logins, no user accounts, no database, no mailing list etc. We won't have any tech people (I won't be here for much longer) to deal with login problems or to keep the database secure and spam-free.
>
> I hoped PDFs would be a workable solution... Word docs would probably be even worse? Any ideas for practical multi-platform-compatible data entry/storage?
>
> - Paddy
>



From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 19 16:58:31 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 16:58:31 +0000
Subject: [_] Becoming a project manager
In-Reply-To: <B77449B0-743B-429C-A4F9-E80271430FAB@circle-interactive.co.uk>
References: <CAPK0icgPfnJJQVuX4vOvHdieCQMqiLEpwZoFtxVtoTJpvbysJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <B77449B0-743B-429C-A4F9-E80271430FAB@circle-interactive.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPK0ich1syqFfZv+Y1iy-tdHHd7BX647cCbPezO=8ZV9gXAqLw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the comments guys. Also thanks David I will point him
toward that: He is Exeter based though so I am not sure he will want
to travel to Bristol (although that may be fine).

On 19 March 2015 at 16:09, David Moreton <davem at circle-interactive.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Adam
>
> We?re recruiting for a project manager at the moment and have had a very positive experience in the past with someone who was obviously very organised and had an IT background but didn?t have any formal PM experience. She received on the job training and support from us and now has sadly moved on to other things. So suggest us to your friend: even if we don?t employ him, it will be a useful exercise thinking about presenting himself in a slightly different light.
>
> https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/project-manager <https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/jobs/project-manager>
>
> Dave
>
>> On 19 Mar 2015, at 11:48, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey _,
>>
>> I have a friend who is considering a career move into project
>> management (of the computing / IT sort), he doesn't have any specific
>> experience in that area. He is quite knowledgable about computing and
>> IT but he is not a developer. He is a very organised chap and has had
>> to kinda manage projects in the environmental waste sector for his
>> past career.
>>
>> Any advice on how he should get started? Training? And how to get
>> experience he can put on his CV? Work for a voluntary org or
>> something?
>>
>> --
>> Adam Retter
>>
>> skype: adam.retter
>> tweet: adamretter
>> http://www.adamretter.org.uk
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> Circle Interactive Ltd
>
> Telephone: 0117 909 6967
> www.circle-interactive.co.uk <http://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/>
> twitter.com/#!/circle_int <http://twitter.com/#!/circle_int>
>
> Circle Interactive Ltd  is a company registered in England
> Registered Address: 1 Osborne Rd, Bristol, BS3 1PR
> Company Number: 05540067  VAT Number: 862693490
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk


From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 19 17:06:59 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 17:06:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Sales Prospector
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZPambpY=v+GEyrYkTwVyencoUWwz7e6D0AtNzKnwcZ8qA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJwc0ZPambpY=v+GEyrYkTwVyencoUWwz7e6D0AtNzKnwcZ8qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <226437214.854458.1426784819972.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

looks ideal for students :)?All the best

Adam 


     On Thursday, 19 March 2015, 10:25, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:
   

 I don't suppose anybody here would know someone that might be interested in
a part time salesish role???

http://wastesource.workable.com/jobs/43270
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


  

From Paddy at spanuk.org.uk  Fri Mar 20 09:39:02 2015
From: Paddy at spanuk.org.uk (Paddy Uglow)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:39:02 +0000
Subject: [_] RTF editing app recommendations (was PDF forms for online
 course - is this practical?)
Message-ID: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE48D@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>

I'm going to try the RTF worksheet approach as the Least Bad option for now.
So... can anyone recommend a simple app on Android and Iphone/ipad that will open and edit RTFs?
Thanks folks.
- Paddy

From joe.leech at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 10:36:11 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:36:11 +0000
Subject: [_] IFA
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9b2Zrp121zdbeerovUuEakFE0KQJsNg7B3-tUVqp7jCFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAER4s9Y_8P0=BDFuGwz6n9W2hhkn8_3M0PbwdEBVpg00aVRXXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACeWpzja8KjgQThHSMW39wV1A3zkPDmVV3YY+ThbGPgYBNQ78w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANGB9CAde7yHW5Q3t7EEag_EAzRbkuf4a+guO9Och6ezU_vViw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9b2Zrp121zdbeerovUuEakFE0KQJsNg7B3-tUVqp7jCFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc0rQH3dMaLejEbeXiTJRRB6cLc08PKknFY4WtN5NwQOJw@mail.gmail.com>

You could try a guy called Chris Bromley, he used to work for a design
agency so knows the industry well. He helps me out as well as a few
other Bristol digital folk. He knows his stuff and is a nice bloke.

Drop me a line and I can put you in touch.

joe

On 19 March 2015 at 10:34, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks ideal, thanks for the link.
> On 18 Mar 2015 13:14, "Nic Rodgers" <nicrodgers at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Contractor Financials are very good at this kind of stuff:
>> fhttp://www.contractorfinancials.com/
>>
>>
>> On 18 March 2015 at 12:10, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > +1
>> > I ought to revisit this and see what I ought to be doing.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> > On 18 March 2015 at 11:56, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > After the healthy pension discussion I'm feeling the need to get my own
>> > in
>> > > order, however it all seems a bit confusing to a beginner.
>> > >
>> > > Can anybody recommend an Independent Financial Advisor with experience
>> > > helping IT contractors trading as Ltd companies? Looking for some help
>> in
>> > > setting up a pension, getting suitable life insurance, etc.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > >
>> > > Tom
>> > > --
>> > > underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> >
>> > --
>> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> >
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From me at amias.net  Sun Mar 22 10:43:02 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:43:02 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE432@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
References: <mailman.1445.1426779485.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
 <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE432@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XUo5aZ-h8QywhqcxwZviA=b0hpe0UqRiEmEKjMLTOZ2iA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Paddy,

I'm pretty sure that there is a 'users can edit entries' option for google
forms , but i'm not sure if it works without logins , i guess it could use
cookies if the client allows them

Cheers
Amias.

On 19 March 2015 at 16:09, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:

>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm going to experiment with an RTF
> worksheet and hopefully find a free app to suggest that'll edit them on iOs
> and Android, and trust in WordPad / Word Pad / Text Edit for the laptops
> and desktops.
> I wondered about Google Forms too, but couldn't see a good way that people
> could read or edit their answers at a later date (without having a login);
> some of the courses take days or weeks to complete.
>
> >Doesn't quite eliminate your server-side stuff, but Google Forms is
> quite a good way of creating forms and having the answers automatically
> stored in a (restricted access) spreadsheet. The answers can be tied to
> a Google account so that takes care of authentication. Quick and easy to
> set up as well, you don't need too much technical knowledge.
>
> On 19/03/15 10:23, Paddy Uglow wrote:
> > Thanks for suggestions. Having fought a battle getting the courses into
> Moodle, I'm not keen to try another LMS, and probably don't have time to
> convert the courses again.
> > What I'm after is a way for students to type in answers and store them,
> but with no server-side stuff: no logins, no user accounts, no database, no
> mailing list etc. We won't have any tech people (I won't be here for much
> longer) to deal with login problems or to keep the database secure and
> spam-free.
> >
> > I hoped PDFs would be a workable solution... Word docs would probably be
> even worse? Any ideas for practical multi-platform-compatible data
> entry/storage?
> >
> > - Paddy
> >
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From james at nuvola.co.uk  Sun Mar 22 22:59:31 2015
From: james at nuvola.co.uk (James Geldart)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 22:59:31 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <CAMgU7XUo5aZ-h8QywhqcxwZviA=b0hpe0UqRiEmEKjMLTOZ2iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1445.1426779485.1448.underscore@under-score.org.uk>
 <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE432@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAMgU7XUo5aZ-h8QywhqcxwZviA=b0hpe0UqRiEmEKjMLTOZ2iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <550F4953.4090809@nuvola.co.uk>



On 22/03/15 10:43, Amias Channer wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that there is a 'users can edit entries' option for google
> forms , but i'm not sure if it works without logins , i guess it could use
> cookies if the client allows them
IIRC you need to be logged in to Google OR use a unique URL for your 
version of the form, which it gives you when you submit it. The latter 
might be a bit much to expect students to remember though....


From phil at web2wire.com  Mon Mar 23 08:43:02 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 08:43:02 +0000
Subject: [_] Short Term PHP/Mysql/jQuery work
Message-ID: <550FD216.2090708@web2wire.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone to help out with a bit of (mostly) PHP/mysql 
work. It's basically implementation of a site design. I'd call it 
re-skinning as it involves a current site except that the bulk of the 
underlying code is being brought up-to-date as well. The site is pure 
PHP and not running on any kind of recognised framework or CMS.

I estimate that it will around 4 weeks of work required, not necessarily 
all in one lump (though if you can do that so much the better). 
Javascript/jQuery would be useful as would some experience with 
implementing designs from Fireworks (or other layered .png application) 
but that's not critical as I can annotate hard copies if necessary. 
Also, SASS would be handy, though that takes about 5 minutes to learn 
anyway :) If you have implemented a basket/checkout system (just that 
part, it's not a shop) then even better.

This job can be done from your office or home for the most part other 
than maybe the odd meeting or two with the client about half an hour 
outside Bristol. Start time would ideally be as soon as possible but 
could be up to two weeks or so away.

If you are interested please drop me a mail with your availability, some 
idea of your level of experience and your general daily rate etc.

Thanks for reading.

Phil


From me at amias.net  Mon Mar 23 09:43:41 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 09:43:41 +0000
Subject: [_] PDF forms for online course - is this practical?
In-Reply-To: <42A56448-7E88-4EFF-8C58-59F296A4ABA1@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE2A7@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <42A56448-7E88-4EFF-8C58-59F296A4ABA1@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XVn_RZgA=_hivvyZQ87YRcrchr4WsrdK3NgxRTDDNu36w@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 March 2015 at 09:30, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> And if you are worried about abuse, do simple things like limit how many
> questionnaires they can answer (maybe 10 in an hour), using their IP
> address :-)


I suspect that approach will result in 10 questionaires being allowed to be
filled through the university firewall.

just make logins work via openid or oauth or similar , it will save you a
lot of bother.

Cheers
Amias

From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 09:51:19 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 09:51:19 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

> Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot be valid :-p

In an industry where some of the biggest players advertise for 'Rockstars', 'Gurus' and 'Ninjas' the term 'mid-weight' seems far less silly and makes perfect sense (to me).

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________


From me at amias.net  Mon Mar 23 09:58:08 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 09:58:08 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XVP=ivc0pFPbM5J02mNkGV1mDYKOpsZqAA6BdW7r3BPBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

This also begs the question what happened to the previous incumbent ?
Can we presume they were too heavy ? Should applicants bring their own
chairs ?

Cheers
Amias


On 23 March 2015 at 09:51, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:

> > Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot
> be valid :-p
>
> In an industry where some of the biggest players advertise for
> 'Rockstars', 'Gurus' and 'Ninjas' the term 'mid-weight' seems far less
> silly and makes perfect sense (to me).
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 10:00:54 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 10:00:54 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzj_G+p-rVk1ZQorVaO3FL=pxwqONGRzWYjp--yaziB57Q@mail.gmail.com>

So Mid-weight is more like support act or road crew then?

Steve

On 23 March 2015 at 09:51, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>> Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot be valid :-p
>
> In an industry where some of the biggest players advertise for 'Rockstars', 'Gurus' and 'Ninjas' the term 'mid-weight' seems far less silly and makes perfect sense (to me).
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From rick.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 10:32:18 2015
From: rick.edwards at gmail.com (Rick Edwards)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 10:32:18 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CAHx1AVYC6xofoQP2f607O2_mWxeRU0rbcj--iPnogmSDiG0mKg@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 March 2015 at 09:51, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:

> > Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot
> be valid :-p
>
> In an industry where some of the biggest players advertise for
> 'Rockstars', 'Gurus' and 'Ninjas' the term 'mid-weight' seems far less
> silly and makes perfect sense (to me).
>
>
>

Lol, yup, and all of those terms are ambiguous and hence invalid too!

Though I quite like the idea of someone advertising for a PHP support
act...

From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 11:01:10 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:01:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
 <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
 <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08bd04f452dd4f5b8458228db6bf39d0@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

>  Worth mentioning the Halifax Clarity credit card which uses the Visa exchange rate and doesn't add any fees.

> I don't bother with changing cash, pre-paid cards or anything else now.
> Just use the ATM in the airport when I land and carry on with the card like I would at home.

> http://www.halifax.co.uk/creditcards/Landing/clarity-card-all/?so=MSE_Halifax_Table_Clarity


A quick, possibly useful update; if you use one of these to withdraw cash in-country you pay interest on that sum immediately from the day of the withdrawal through to when you settle the bill. I have one  and the interest rate is 21%.

They advise you make all payments on the card and keep cash withdrawals to a minimum.

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________


From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Mon Mar 23 10:15:10 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 10:15:10 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzj_G+p-rVk1ZQorVaO3FL=pxwqONGRzWYjp--yaziB57Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFLHt2-LWmL214jc8HORNfi68Raw1APytm3Yv8eLB-=qPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzj_G+p-rVk1ZQorVaO3FL=pxwqONGRzWYjp--yaziB57Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85F16691-7F97-4A02-A645-377F6F435F21@hiddedevries.nl>

Agreed with Stewart, ?mid weight? makes perfect sense.

Some people are surely no longer juniors, but not yet on the level where they?d be considered senior, so it is sensible to have a medior/mid weight level in place.

On 23 Mar 2015, at 10:00, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> So Mid-weight is more like support act or road crew then?
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 23 March 2015 at 09:51, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot be valid :-p
>> 
>> In an industry where some of the biggest players advertise for 'Rockstars', 'Gurus' and 'Ninjas' the term 'mid-weight' seems far less silly and makes perfect sense (to me).
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 11:10:48 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:10:48 +0000
Subject: [_] Modern Business Banking
In-Reply-To: <08bd04f452dd4f5b8458228db6bf39d0@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <54F440FF.3000302@web2wire.com>
 <66846920-725B-4DF6-BAA6-092DB75ED38B@gothick.org.uk>
 <CACeWpzjtD=e+y-PK4rGrfD0Fx1ig6c=tSzWnNusYKuFqy9R9Tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <28A0834E-676B-413E-B3C1-CCF412382B8A@quernus.co.uk>
 <1577995431-1425343980-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-939142932-@b4.c1.bise7.blackberry>
 <CAPBFXdcBemVs4WAgHGFS8DyEBPS=jmzG3H-9gKwr=JU-vZ01fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <08bd04f452dd4f5b8458228db6bf39d0@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CACeWpziMRMWwLXxjjL7ZzW0A8Yv4uByL6=7h0eDDyPmPhU+30g@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 March 2015 at 11:01, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>  Worth mentioning the Halifax Clarity credit card which uses the Visa exchange rate and doesn't add any fees.
>
>> I don't bother with changing cash, pre-paid cards or anything else now.
>> Just use the ATM in the airport when I land and carry on with the card like I would at home.
>
>> http://www.halifax.co.uk/creditcards/Landing/clarity-card-all/?so=MSE_Halifax_Table_Clarity
>
>
> A quick, possibly useful update; if you use one of these to withdraw cash in-country you pay interest on that sum immediately from the day of the withdrawal through to when you settle the bill. I have one  and the interest rate is 21%.
>
> They advise you make all payments on the card and keep cash withdrawals to a minimum.

I got caught out by this. I never withdraw cash with a card for that
reason. However buying currency over the counter didn't feel like
withdrawing cash to me. I was corrected on this when I received my
statement :(

Steve


From marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 11:21:27 2015
From: marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk (Marc Carter)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:21:27 +0000
Subject: [_] Mid-Weight Front-end role at Mr B and Friends
In-Reply-To: <85F16691-7F97-4A02-A645-377F6F435F21@hiddedevries.nl>
References: <CAKcJBrxBAvw-n6z_+GBoRBvSh78XQO0o2=x-dzVLRCztCJjLiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+Kf2zkq+nbTeR36RvVwWwOD=kuoZX3uX=VaG2cSsSiFK93dNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+deSx_aUZaz2Hyf-phw31g_kR9UmWcY=BLaDcfV_GtwGVcoFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <04691646-5402-4767-802F-04CD373A4A9F@topia.com>
 <CAFRL4J_ew-+tLs9m366DGHtfwQWJ4qnbr9d0U3JoGJratdE67g@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB479C7D2D04744177C5A77B2E9030@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <550851CE.5050009@guicreative.com>
 <CA+Kf2z=F=eRNFVg2FD_is5KYJ=0ovLybDnPHRZTfLO1X3yB-Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKcJBrxXfY=wYtUWYdOzHMHPUiP4FyO-hrNQ1Kjy+9SYkBEwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <BE51632F-9239-4002-AE64-6143EF36BA93@topia.com>
 <CAJeVz_zAmrMndK-aacLZcKqHqe+RiYqfWKDKZQqyEw22Nk_xBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHx1AVb75iwjvPOQGHR46gO3WPJXNYA1+iq_Fo_5NaU=LWMD9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <efdb3ef9318b4b14bf46bfd43eba5d01@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CACeWpzj_G+p-rVk1ZQorVaO3FL=pxwqONGRzWYjp--yaziB57Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <85F16691-7F97-4A02-A645-377F6F435F21@hiddedevries.nl>
Message-ID: <550FF737.7090303@theenglishgroup.co.uk>

+1

I thought the initial attack a little harsh



On 23/03/2015 10:15, Hidde de Vries wrote:
> Agreed with Stewart, ?mid weight? makes perfect sense.
>
> Some people are surely no longer juniors, but not yet on the level where they?d be considered senior, so it is sensible to have a medior/mid weight level in place.
>
> On 23 Mar 2015, at 10:00, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So Mid-weight is more like support act or road crew then?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 23 March 2015 at 09:51, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately "mid-weight" is an ambiguous term so by definition cannot be valid :-p
>>> In an industry where some of the biggest players advertise for 'Rockstars', 'Gurus' and 'Ninjas' the term 'mid-weight' seems far less silly and makes perfect sense (to me).
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> -- 
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>


-- 

-- 




MARC CARTER | marc at theenglishgroup.co.uk
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE GATE HOUSE, UPPER SHOCKERWICK FARM, UPPER SHOCKERWICK, BATH BA1 7LH
T. +44 (0)1225 742273
_http://www.theenglishgroup.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

COPYRIGHT: THE ENGLISH GROUP (2011)
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From davem at circle-interactive.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 14:37:02 2015
From: davem at circle-interactive.co.uk (David Moreton)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:37:02 +0000
Subject: [_] CiviCRM anyone?
Message-ID: <C3D3B72B-D78C-4031-8DE0-A4A11C04E4C5@circle-interactive.co.uk>

2 training dates for anyone interested in CiviCRM: 

21 April in London
https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/civicrm-training-21st-april <https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/civicrm-training-21st-april>

21 May in Bristol
https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/civicrm-training-21st-may <https://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/civicrm-training-21st-may> 

These courses are useful for anyone new to the system, people considering using it or folks that have come into an organisation where it?s in place but who haven?t been given any formal training. You?ll cover the main components and leave with an understanding of how to extend the system for your needs. Hope that?s useful to someone.

Cheers

Dave

Circle Interactive Ltd

Telephone: 0117 909 6967
www.circle-interactive.co.uk <http://www.circle-interactive.co.uk/>
twitter.com/#!/circle_int <http://twitter.com/#!/circle_int>

Circle Interactive Ltd  is a company registered in England
Registered Address: 1 Osborne Rd, Bristol, BS3 1PR 
Company Number: 05540067  VAT Number: 862693490

Next Training Dates:
CiviCRM Training - 21 April Croydon
Drupal Training - 07 May Bristol
CiviCRM Training - 21 May Bristol


From oliver.lists at agilebase.co.uk  Mon Mar 23 15:50:19 2015
From: oliver.lists at agilebase.co.uk (Oliver Kohll - Mailing Lists)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:50:19 +0000
Subject: [_] MuleSoft
Message-ID: <20BDCCAC-4931-4A7F-9612-077A8D0CA857@agilebase.co.uk>

Hi,

Has anyone used www.mulesoft.org <http://www.mulesoft.org/> for an integration before? How painful or pain-free was it? Any alternatives?

I?m considering it for a project that integrates our system with Google Calendar - we want more fine grained control (updating existing events etc.) than the integration service we usually use which is www.zapier.com <http://www.zapier.com/>. Also thinking of it for some other projects.

The hope is it?s simpler than writing your own integration code from scratch. The only thing is from a brief play, the Eclipse-based developer app is a bit flaky.

Oliver
www.agilebase.co.uk <http://www.agilebase.co.uk/>


From tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk  Tue Mar 24 15:02:20 2015
From: tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk (Tom WHITE)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:02:20 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
Message-ID: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hello [_]

We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6 Months rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we mean occasional visit on site.

We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.

Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out more information.

Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.

Thanks



From davehodg at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 15:20:33 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (Dave Hodgkinson)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:20:33 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANibispTp7EqBXEQe2oPedmXXeJLnwt3wb2rtxMiztpH7bnDYw@mail.gmail.com>

What kind of OS X?


On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hello [_]
>
> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6 Months
> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we
> mean occasional visit on site.
>
> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>
> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out more
> information.
>
> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From taholder at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:40:35 2015
From: taholder at gmail.com (Tom Holder)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 17:40:35 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGobHES9EdAiLKf=MNbfMbGrfZSzYSP=9LO++LNrO4Hu61qJ3Q@mail.gmail.com>

I've not upgraded to Yosemite yet, would I still stand a shot?

I'd be willing to take a slight hit on this day rate if they would be happy
to accept me using Mountain Lion?

Tom

On 24 March 2015 at 15:02, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:

> Hello [_]
>
> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6 Months
> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we
> mean occasional visit on site.
>
> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>
> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out more
> information.
>
> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mail at azulinho.com  Tue Mar 24 19:33:42 2015
From: mail at azulinho.com (Azul)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 19:33:42 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGobHES9EdAiLKf=MNbfMbGrfZSzYSP=9LO++LNrO4Hu61qJ3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGobHES9EdAiLKf=MNbfMbGrfZSzYSP=9LO++LNrO4Hu61qJ3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMP=owhWaF2sdgY1d_tuKWSFbG1i=p4ECJZFXJMDboQJ3CZ+PA@mail.gmail.com>

i installed hackintosh once, my productivity went to the bottom and i went
back to my awesome twm again.
 On 24 Mar 2015 17:41, "Tom Holder" <taholder at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've not upgraded to Yosemite yet, would I still stand a shot?
>
> I'd be willing to take a slight hit on this day rate if they would be happy
> to accept me using Mountain Lion?
>
> Tom
>
> On 24 March 2015 at 15:02, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hello [_]
> >
> > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
> Months
> > rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we
> > mean occasional visit on site.
> >
> > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> >
> > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
> more
> > information.
> >
> > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From drew at designer-drew.com  Tue Mar 24 18:48:22 2015
From: drew at designer-drew.com (drew)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 18:48:22 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
Message-ID: <pq8kxjn259yf2jrm0xa2gg16.1427222806605@email.android.com>

A job just using an operating system? Seems a no brainer...







-------- Original message --------
From: Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> 
Date: 24/03/2015  15:02  (GMT+00:00) 
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk 
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role 

Hello [_]

We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6 Months rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we mean occasional visit on site.

We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.

Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out more information.

Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.

Thanks


-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 08:54:13 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 08:54:13 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <pq8kxjn259yf2jrm0xa2gg16.1427222806605@email.android.com>
References: <pq8kxjn259yf2jrm0xa2gg16.1427222806605@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKJoCVgcU5u8trXeJuwUcR0Q+wp_YogfKZjKSqV1R1sf7A@mail.gmail.com>

No he means you will be writing the next version of OSX, ground-up
rebuild based on JavaScript ;)

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 6:48 PM, drew <drew at designer-drew.com> wrote:
> A job just using an operating system? Seems a no brainer...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk>
> Date: 24/03/2015  15:02  (GMT+00:00)
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
>
> Hello [_]
>
> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6 Months rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we mean occasional visit on site.
>
> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>
> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out more information.
>
> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From mail at azulinho.com  Wed Mar 25 09:27:37 2015
From: mail at azulinho.com (Azul)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 09:27:37 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubKJoCVgcU5u8trXeJuwUcR0Q+wp_YogfKZjKSqV1R1sf7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pq8kxjn259yf2jrm0xa2gg16.1427222806605@email.android.com>
 <CAGKubKJoCVgcU5u8trXeJuwUcR0Q+wp_YogfKZjKSqV1R1sf7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMP=owgKPhpp+sv3g0ndJsr7i7HSshnzJ5KhGR6MquwovkVeNQ@mail.gmail.com>

JS is overrated, I'm certain OSX 11 will be written using posix shell only
and it will run on android phones too

On 25 March 2015 at 08:54, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:

> No he means you will be writing the next version of OSX, ground-up
> rebuild based on JavaScript ;)
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 6:48 PM, drew <drew at designer-drew.com> wrote:
> > A job just using an operating system? Seems a no brainer...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk>
> > Date: 24/03/2015  15:02  (GMT+00:00)
> > To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
> >
> > Hello [_]
> >
> > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
> Months rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional,
> and we mean occasional visit on site.
> >
> > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> >
> > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
> more information.
> >
> > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From martin at spodnet.net  Wed Mar 25 09:38:32 2015
From: martin at spodnet.net (Martin Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 09:38:32 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAMP=owgKPhpp+sv3g0ndJsr7i7HSshnzJ5KhGR6MquwovkVeNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pq8kxjn259yf2jrm0xa2gg16.1427222806605@email.android.com>
 <CAGKubKJoCVgcU5u8trXeJuwUcR0Q+wp_YogfKZjKSqV1R1sf7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMP=owgKPhpp+sv3g0ndJsr7i7HSshnzJ5KhGR6MquwovkVeNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55128218.4040005@spodnet.net>

I heard they were going to do it in flash.

On 25/03/2015 09:27, Azul wrote:
> JS is overrated, I'm certain OSX 11 will be written using posix shell only
> and it will run on android phones too
>
> On 25 March 2015 at 08:54, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No he means you will be writing the next version of OSX, ground-up
>> rebuild based on JavaScript ;)
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 6:48 PM, drew <drew at designer-drew.com> wrote:
>>> A job just using an operating system? Seems a no brainer...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk>
>>> Date: 24/03/2015  15:02  (GMT+00:00)
>>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>>> Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
>>>
>>> Hello [_]
>>>
>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
>> Months rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional,
>> and we mean occasional visit on site.
>>>
>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>>>
>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
>> more information.
>>>
>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Hurst
>> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>



From steve.kirtley at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 09:48:49 2015
From: steve.kirtley at gmail.com (Steve Kirtley)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 09:48:49 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM2PR04MB0738468A3EE49EA13FD40579E70A0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHF22SxwaqLjO2YTMY=vioejPw3gOYwR3kMNg48y0gKAM+rQYw@mail.gmail.com>

Do you mean occasional visits to site?

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hello [_]
>
> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6 Months
> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we
> mean occasional visit on site.
>
> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>
> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out more
> information.
>
> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mail at azulinho.com  Wed Mar 25 10:09:36 2015
From: mail at azulinho.com (Azul)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:09:36 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <55128218.4040005@spodnet.net>
References: <pq8kxjn259yf2jrm0xa2gg16.1427222806605@email.android.com>
 <CAGKubKJoCVgcU5u8trXeJuwUcR0Q+wp_YogfKZjKSqV1R1sf7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMP=owgKPhpp+sv3g0ndJsr7i7HSshnzJ5KhGR6MquwovkVeNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55128218.4040005@spodnet.net>
Message-ID: <CAMP=owjYqE1KSWQXFRBsg6=W_1v5xg-6Js+2qVyHV36Lq4NH8A@mail.gmail.com>

quite likely, been told that adobe were porting flash to run on ncurses.

On 25 March 2015 at 09:38, Martin Wheatley <martin at spodnet.net> wrote:

> I heard they were going to do it in flash.
>
> On 25/03/2015 09:27, Azul wrote:
>
>> JS is overrated, I'm certain OSX 11 will be written using posix shell only
>> and it will run on android phones too
>>
>> On 25 March 2015 at 08:54, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  No he means you will be writing the next version of OSX, ground-up
>>> rebuild based on JavaScript ;)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 6:48 PM, drew <drew at designer-drew.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A job just using an operating system? Seems a no brainer...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk>
>>>> Date: 24/03/2015  15:02  (GMT+00:00)
>>>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>>>> Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
>>>>
>>>> Hello [_]
>>>>
>>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
>>>>
>>> Months rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional,
>>> and we mean occasional visit on site.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>>>>
>>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
>>>>
>>> more information.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>>
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>>>
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Hurst
>>> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>>>
>>> --
>>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From Will.Cleverly at epochdesign.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 09:55:54 2015
From: Will.Cleverly at epochdesign.co.uk (Will Cleverly)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 09:55:54 +0000
Subject: [_] Anyone aware of Junior Graphic Designer vacancies...
Message-ID: <D1383571.1F1E0%Will.Cleverly@epochdesign.co.uk>

In the Bristol/Bath area currently?

I've offered to have a little look around for one of my Epoch interns from 2014.

She's super talented, hence my desire to give her some job hunting assistance.

DM me if you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Will

Will Cleverly | Epoch
Will.Cleverly at epochdesign.co.uk

D +44 (0)117 314 7260
M +44 (0)7970 452882
T +44 (0)117 314 7200
W www.epochdesign.co.uk <http://www.epochdesign.co.uk><http://www.epochdesign.co.uk>

This message, its contents and any attachments to it are private, confidential and may be the subject of legal privilege. Any unauthorised disclosure, copying or distribution of all or part of this message is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately.  Epoch Design Limited is a limited liability company registered in England and Wales. Registered Office: 1st Floor, 30 Park Street, London, SE1 9EQ  Registered No: 03039255



From Paddy at spanuk.org.uk  Wed Mar 25 10:23:27 2015
From: Paddy at spanuk.org.uk (Paddy Uglow)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:23:27 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
Message-ID: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>

I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to those in the know.
I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for 800 quid? ;-)
- Paddy

> > Hello [_]
> >
> > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
> Months
> > rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and we
> > mean occasional visit on site.
> >
> > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> >
> > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
> more
> > information.
> >
> > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> >
> > Thanks

From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 10:25:26 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:25:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Anyone aware of Junior Graphic Designer vacancies...
In-Reply-To: <D1383571.1F1E0%Will.Cleverly@epochdesign.co.uk>
References: <D1383571.1F1E0%Will.Cleverly@epochdesign.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1282297044.1378480.1427279127067.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

normally lots of design jobs on indeed.co.uk?All the best

Adam 


     On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, 10:16, Will Cleverly <Will.Cleverly at epochdesign.co.uk> wrote:
   

 In the Bristol/Bath area currently?

I've offered to have a little look around for one of my Epoch interns from 2014.

She's super talented, hence my desire to give her some job hunting assistance.

DM me if you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Will

Will Cleverly | Epoch
Will.Cleverly at epochdesign.co.uk

D +44 (0)117 314 7260
M +44 (0)7970 452882
T +44 (0)117 314 7200
W www.epochdesign.co.uk <http://www.epochdesign.co.uk><http://www.epochdesign.co.uk>

This message, its contents and any attachments to it are private, confidential and may be the subject of legal privilege. Any unauthorised disclosure, copying or distribution of all or part of this message is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately.? Epoch Design Limited is a limited liability company registered in England and Wales. Registered Office: 1st Floor, 30 Park Street, London, SE1 9EQ? Registered No: 03039255


-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


  

From taholder at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 10:27:56 2015
From: taholder at gmail.com (Tom Holder)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:27:56 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
Message-ID: <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>

Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?

Tom

On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:

> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to those
> in the know.
> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for 800
> quid? ;-)
> - Paddy
>
> > > Hello [_]
> > >
> > > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
> > Months
> > > rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and
> we
> > > mean occasional visit on site.
> > >
> > > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> > >
> > > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
> > more
> > > information.
> > >
> > > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From me at amias.net  Wed Mar 25 10:29:10 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:29:10 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XVg1=53FrRCquF+QY8pRwLRW5HakVT3G9vf2B_AX=ifbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello _

you'd have to pay me more than that to use OSX

Cheers
Amias

On 25 March 2015 at 10:27, Tom Holder <taholder at gmail.com> wrote:

> Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
>
> Tom
>
> On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to those
> > in the know.
> > I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for 800
> > quid? ;-)
> > - Paddy
> >
> > > > Hello [_]
> > > >
> > > > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
> > > Months
> > > > rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and
> > we
> > > > mean occasional visit on site.
> > > >
> > > > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> > > >
> > > > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
> > > more
> > > > information.
> > > >
> > > > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 10:32:37 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:32:37 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGKubK+SDZooxJ=fipY-HtVQm4XuDwt2M9uOSnZj5t5E9P=FyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Being serious for once, I guess he means someone who can develop
native apps for OSX. I guess it's not much different to saying "we
have an iOS contract role", and most people would realise that he
doesn't mean he needs someone to use an iPad.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Tom Holder <taholder at gmail.com> wrote:
> Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
>
> Tom
>
> On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to those
>> in the know.
>> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for 800
>> quid? ;-)
>> - Paddy
>>
>> > > Hello [_]
>> > >
>> > > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 6
>> > Months
>> > > rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, and
>> we
>> > > mean occasional visit on site.
>> > >
>> > > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>> > >
>> > > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find out
>> > more
>> > > information.
>> > >
>> > > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From carl at sargunar.com  Wed Mar 25 10:36:32 2015
From: carl at sargunar.com (Carl Sargunar)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:36:32 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubK+SDZooxJ=fipY-HtVQm4XuDwt2M9uOSnZj5t5E9P=FyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGKubK+SDZooxJ=fipY-HtVQm4XuDwt2M9uOSnZj5t5E9P=FyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRL4J_ZdpJ1__GdpZp+-n449VfRjnarGG4FZW0JtNTCSOV5qg@mail.gmail.com>

I can use an iPad. And I'm a medium weight developer ....

From peter at sparkdata.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 10:45:34 2015
From: peter at sparkdata.co.uk (Peter Marshall)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 10:45:34 +0000
Subject: [_] Go Brizzz
Message-ID: <56dc0011b32e4eb29c00a7bc89cdc5be@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/


Peter Marshall

0117 915 9673


Quay Side, 40-58 Hotwell Road,
Bristol, BS8 4UQ
T: 0117 907 9921
W: www.sparkdata.co.uk





From andy at txm.net  Wed Mar 25 11:27:47 2015
From: andy at txm.net (Andrew McGregor)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 11:27:47 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubK+SDZooxJ=fipY-HtVQm4XuDwt2M9uOSnZj5t5E9P=FyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGKubK+SDZooxJ=fipY-HtVQm4XuDwt2M9uOSnZj5t5E9P=FyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHSbhejZhjXw38XZfLU6==-_KdknVzBayJKWws9BNq3ing4bdg@mail.gmail.com>

I took it to mean OS X Server therefore a sys admin role, but after a
brief email from Tom it seems, and it pains me to say it, Rick is
right. Obj C is what's needed.

-- 
Andrew McGregor
M: 07940 22 33 11


From matt at quernus.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 11:27:51 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 11:27:51 +0000
Subject: [_] Go Brizzz
In-Reply-To: <56dc0011b32e4eb29c00a7bc89cdc5be@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>
References: <56dc0011b32e4eb29c00a7bc89cdc5be@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4B3FBD07-618A-4B30-A16B-39B456A84FD0@quernus.co.uk>


> On 25 Mar 2015, at 10:45, Peter Marshall <peter at sparkdata.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/ <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/>

Awesome! Although I have to say I think they turned the bullshit generator up to 11 when they came up with "Software Defined Programmable City?.

-Matt


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 14:14:15 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:14:15 +0000
Subject: [_] HTML/CSS Email Developer
Message-ID: <2d3fd37bf05e4164bc28a31b11cb8728@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

Afternoon

A Developer with experience of generating HTML / CSS emails from SalesForce ExactTarget is needed by our central Bristol client for 3 - 6 months.

Reply off list for more details, reply on-list if you've any abuse for me!

Cheers

Stewart


______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 14:42:43 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 14:42:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Go Brizzz
In-Reply-To: <4B3FBD07-618A-4B30-A16B-39B456A84FD0@quernus.co.uk>
References: <4B3FBD07-618A-4B30-A16B-39B456A84FD0@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2071934664.1570069.1427294563652.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

if anyone knows how to program bristol i think it could do with a few tweaks?All the best

Adam 


     On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, 11:28, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:
   

 
> On 25 Mar 2015, at 10:45, Peter Marshall <peter at sparkdata.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/ <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/>

Awesome! Although I have to say I think they turned the bullshit generator up to 11 when they came up with "Software Defined Programmable City?.

-Matt


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

  

From steve.kirtley at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 15:26:06 2015
From: steve.kirtley at gmail.com (Steve Kirtley)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 15:26:06 +0000
Subject: [_] HTML/CSS Email Developer
In-Reply-To: <2d3fd37bf05e4164bc28a31b11cb8728@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <2d3fd37bf05e4164bc28a31b11cb8728@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <CAHF22SyBGi6YfDXHMGvbBPh0Z-+5nCjMrzzjjDonLCe7FMTf5w@mail.gmail.com>

Crikey that must be the longest 3-6 months of anyone's life on offer right
there...

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:

> Afternoon
>
> A Developer with experience of generating HTML / CSS emails from
> SalesForce ExactTarget is needed by our central Bristol client for 3 - 6
> months.
>
> Reply off list for more details, reply on-list if you've any abuse for me!
>
> Cheers
>
> Stewart
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From andy at seaborne.org  Wed Mar 25 15:40:21 2015
From: andy at seaborne.org (Andy Seaborne)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 15:40:21 +0000
Subject: [_] Go Brizzz
In-Reply-To: <2071934664.1570069.1427294563652.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4B3FBD07-618A-4B30-A16B-39B456A84FD0@quernus.co.uk>
 <2071934664.1570069.1427294563652.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5512D6E5.6030108@seaborne.org>

cobol-algol-snobol-bristol

On 03/25/15 14:42, adam armfield wrote:
> if anyone knows how to program bristol i think it could do with a few tweaks All the best
>
> Adam
>
>
>       On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, 11:28, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 25 Mar 2015, at 10:45, Peter Marshall <peter at sparkdata.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/ <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/>
>
> Awesome! Although I have to say I think they turned the bullshit generator up to 11 when they came up with "Software Defined Programmable City?.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> ?
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246
>


From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 15:49:28 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 15:49:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] HTML/CSS Email Developer
In-Reply-To: <CAHF22SyBGi6YfDXHMGvbBPh0Z-+5nCjMrzzjjDonLCe7FMTf5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHF22SyBGi6YfDXHMGvbBPh0Z-+5nCjMrzzjjDonLCe7FMTf5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <345048010.1715002.1427298568014.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

a mysterious dimension where time stands still
?All the best

Adam 


     On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, 15:27, Steve Kirtley <steve.kirtley at gmail.com> wrote:
   

 Crikey that must be the longest 3-6 months of anyone's life on offer right
there...

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:

> Afternoon
>
> A Developer with experience of generating HTML / CSS emails from
> SalesForce ExactTarget is needed by our central Bristol client for 3 - 6
> months.
>
> Reply off list for more details, reply on-list if you've any abuse for me!
>
> Cheers
>
> Stewart
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


  

From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 15:48:47 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 15:48:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Go Brizzz
In-Reply-To: <5512D6E5.6030108@seaborne.org>
References: <5512D6E5.6030108@seaborne.org>
Message-ID: <1103571910.1696197.1427298527443.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

insert punch cards through the hippodrome letterbox?All the best

Adam 


     On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, 15:40, Andy Seaborne <andy at seaborne.org> wrote:
   

 cobol-algol-snobol-bristol

On 03/25/15 14:42, adam armfield wrote:
> if anyone knows how to program bristol i think it could do with a few tweaks All the best
>
> Adam
>
>
>? ? ? On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, 11:28, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 25 Mar 2015, at 10:45, Peter Marshall <peter at sparkdata.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/ <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/24/bristol_spins_planetarium_as_data_visualisation_dome/>
>
> Awesome! Although I have to say I think they turned the bullshit generator up to 11 when they came up with "Software Defined Programmable City?.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> ?
> Matt Hamilton
> Quernus
> matt at quernus.co.uk
> +44 117 325 3025
> 49b Easton Business Centre
> Felix Road, Easton
> Bristol, BS5 0HE
>
> Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246
>

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

  

From tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 16:18:34 2015
From: tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk (Tom WHITE)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:18:34 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Unfortunately not, perhaps I can be a little more precise.

We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems Internals, so not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c to create apps etc.

The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and compression systems advantageous but not important.

Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a SoC standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.

Hope this helps and apologies if I caused any confusion.

The role is predominately home based as well.


-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Holder
Sent: 25 March 2015 10:28
To: underscore
Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role

Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?

Tom

On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:

> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to 
> those in the know.
> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for 
> 800 quid? ;-)
> - Paddy
>
> > > Hello [_]
> > >
> > > We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 
> > > 6
> > Months
> > > rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, 
> > > and
> we
> > > mean occasional visit on site.
> > >
> > > We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> > >
> > > Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find 
> > > out
> > more
> > > information.
> > >
> > > Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 16:27:37 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:27:37 +0000
Subject: [_] HTML/CSS Email Developer
In-Reply-To: <CAHF22SyBGi6YfDXHMGvbBPh0Z-+5nCjMrzzjjDonLCe7FMTf5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d3fd37bf05e4164bc28a31b11cb8728@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CAHF22SyBGi6YfDXHMGvbBPh0Z-+5nCjMrzzjjDonLCe7FMTf5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E5CBDBE-1D9C-4088-9689-ED92B0B1BFBF@novate-it.co.uk>

> Crikey that must be the longest 3-6 months of anyone's life on offer right there


Good grief man, you actually want to enjoy your job?!?!?! Fussy blighter!

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________


From paddy at wincstudio.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 16:36:17 2015
From: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk (Paddy Winsley)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:36:17 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7AA54BB6-8D57-413F-8417-0D5E7F9BBC54@wincstudio.co.uk>

Coming from more of a design background, I understood exactly 0% of that description 

:s

?
Thanks and regards
Paddy Winsley
Creative Director
?????????????????????????
www.wincstudio.co.uk


> On 25 Mar 2015, at 16:18, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately not, perhaps I can be a little more precise.
> 
> We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems Internals, so not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c to create apps etc.
> 
> The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and compression systems advantageous but not important.
> 
> Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a SoC standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.
> 
> Hope this helps and apologies if I caused any confusion.
> 
> The role is predominately home based as well.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Holder
> Sent: 25 March 2015 10:28
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
> 
> Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
> 
> Tom
> 
> On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to 
>> those in the know.
>> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for 
>> 800 quid? ;-)
>> - Paddy
>> 
>>>> Hello [_]
>>>> 
>>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 
>>>> 6
>>> Months
>>>> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, 
>>>> and
>> we
>>>> mean occasional visit on site.
>>>> 
>>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>>>> 
>>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find 
>>>> out
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>> 
>>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 16:47:45 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:47:45 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <7AA54BB6-8D57-413F-8417-0D5E7F9BBC54@wincstudio.co.uk>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <7AA54BB6-8D57-413F-8417-0D5E7F9BBC54@wincstudio.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB479CD02313AF7C4F2215707E90B0@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I'm a full stack dev and tech consultant and I probably only got about 5%.

I feel the target audience may be a bit off..

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Paddy Winsley
Sent: 25 March 2015 16:36
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role

Coming from more of a design background, I understood exactly 0% of that description 

:s

?
Thanks and regards
Paddy Winsley
Creative Director
?????????????????????????
www.wincstudio.co.uk


> On 25 Mar 2015, at 16:18, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately not, perhaps I can be a little more precise.
> 
> We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems Internals, so not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c to create apps etc.
> 
> The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and compression systems advantageous but not important.
> 
> Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a SoC standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.
> 
> Hope this helps and apologies if I caused any confusion.
> 
> The role is predominately home based as well.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> Behalf Of Tom Holder
> Sent: 25 March 2015 10:28
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
> 
> Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
> 
> Tom
> 
> On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to 
>> those in the know.
>> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for
>> 800 quid? ;-)
>> - Paddy
>> 
>>>> Hello [_]
>>>> 
>>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 
>>>> 6
>>> Months
>>>> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, 
>>>> and
>> we
>>>> mean occasional visit on site.
>>>> 
>>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>>>> 
>>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find 
>>>> out
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>> 
>>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> 
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> 
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 17:14:19 2015
From: tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk (Tom WHITE)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:14:19 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <DB4PR05MB479CD02313AF7C4F2215707E90B0@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <7AA54BB6-8D57-413F-8417-0D5E7F9BBC54@wincstudio.co.uk>
 <DB4PR05MB479CD02313AF7C4F2215707E90B0@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AM2PR04MB073854912B654C0BFD020662E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Yes indeed... I realised this as I posted it.

Apologies.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Keith Jackson
Sent: 25 March 2015 16:48
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role

I'm a full stack dev and tech consultant and I probably only got about 5%.

I feel the target audience may be a bit off..

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Paddy Winsley
Sent: 25 March 2015 16:36
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role

Coming from more of a design background, I understood exactly 0% of that description 

:s

?
Thanks and regards
Paddy Winsley
Creative Director
?????????????????????????
www.wincstudio.co.uk


> On 25 Mar 2015, at 16:18, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately not, perhaps I can be a little more precise.
> 
> We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems Internals, so not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c to create apps etc.
> 
> The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and compression systems advantageous but not important.
> 
> Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a SoC standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.
> 
> Hope this helps and apologies if I caused any confusion.
> 
> The role is predominately home based as well.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> Behalf Of Tom Holder
> Sent: 25 March 2015 10:28
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
> 
> Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
> 
> Tom
> 
> On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to 
>> those in the know.
>> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for
>> 800 quid? ;-)
>> - Paddy
>> 
>>>> Hello [_]
>>>> 
>>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading. 
>>>> 6
>>> Months
>>>> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, 
>>>> and
>> we
>>>> mean occasional visit on site.
>>>> 
>>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
>>>> 
>>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find 
>>>> out
>>> more
>>>> information.
>>>> 
>>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 17:35:18 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:35:18 +0000
Subject: [_]  MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <DB4PR05MB479CD02313AF7C4F2215707E90B0@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <7AA54BB6-8D57-413F-8417-0D5E7F9BBC54@wincstudio.co.uk>
 <DB4PR05MB479CD02313AF7C4F2215707E90B0@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXdfnXAtWKTepKZNsC6cLF0dR=Ei8kmbMhe4qVh9sgsEfBw@mail.gmail.com>

So they are looking for someone who understands the internals of all
operating systems and knows the architecture of every SoC?

Yeah that really cleared things up!

On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','keith at ministryotech.co.uk');>> wrote:

> I'm a full stack dev and tech consultant and I probably only got about 5%.
>
> I feel the target audience may be a bit off..
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of Paddy Winsley
> Sent: 25 March 2015 16:36
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
>
> Coming from more of a design background, I understood exactly 0% of that
> description
>
> :s
>
> --
> Thanks and regards
> Paddy Winsley
> Creative Director
> -------------------------
> www.wincstudio.co.uk
>
>
> > On 25 Mar 2015, at 16:18, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately not, perhaps I can be a little more precise.
> >
> > We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems Internals, so
> not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c to
> create apps etc.
> >
> > The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various
> hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and
> compression systems advantageous but not important.
> >
> > Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a SoC
> standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.
> >
> > Hope this helps and apologies if I caused any confusion.
> >
> > The role is predominately home based as well.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> > Behalf Of Tom Holder
> > Sent: 25 March 2015 10:28
> > To: underscore
> > Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
> >
> > Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to
> >> those in the know.
> >> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me for
> >> 800 quid? ;-)
> >> - Paddy
> >>
> >>>> Hello [_]
> >>>>
> >>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading.
> >>>> 6
> >>> Months
> >>>> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional,
> >>>> and
> >> we
> >>>> mean occasional visit on site.
> >>>>
> >>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find
> >>>> out
> >>> more
> >>>> information.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From simon at starr.cx  Wed Mar 25 17:54:24 2015
From: simon at starr.cx (Simon Starr)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 17:54:24 +0000
Subject: [_] Bath Ruby Conference Summed Up In A Video
Message-ID: <A7804619-8A28-446F-8F18-E2B16AD8623C@starr.cx>

Hello,

If you missed Bath Ruby Conference or you?d like to relive the experience then you might enjoy this short film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em49QAJF-7Q <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em49QAJF-7Q>

Videos of all the talks and photos from the day will be up very soon :)

Cheers!
  Simon
--
Simon Starr
https://twitter.com/sstarr <https://twitter.com/sstarr>
http://www.simonstarr.com/ <http://www.simonstarr.com/>
https://cahootify.com/ <https://cahootify.com/>

From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 19:21:52 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 19:21:52 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKKXV3Wq-JgXO0wajzXodR91MB94k1J-T5djBXpSqbJU_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:

> We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems Internals, so not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c to create apps etc.
>
> The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and compression systems advantageous but not important.
>
> Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a SoC standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.

Is there a JavaScript library for that though?

-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Wed Mar 25 19:54:18 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 19:54:18 -0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubKKXV3Wq-JgXO0wajzXodR91MB94k1J-T5djBXpSqbJU_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGKubKKXV3Wq-JgXO0wajzXodR91MB94k1J-T5djBXpSqbJU_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAEQMLxBD+EtEqhYck3zW8esBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Yes, but it costs ?500, a new incompatible version will be out in 6 months
and it may trash your machine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Rick Hurst
Sent: 25 March 2015 19:22
To: underscore
Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role

Is there a JavaScript library for that though?



From steve.kirtley at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 22:53:39 2015
From: steve.kirtley at gmail.com (Steve Kirtley)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 22:53:39 +0000
Subject: [_] HTML/CSS Email Developer
In-Reply-To: <9E5CBDBE-1D9C-4088-9689-ED92B0B1BFBF@novate-it.co.uk>
References: <2d3fd37bf05e4164bc28a31b11cb8728@THHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <CAHF22SyBGi6YfDXHMGvbBPh0Z-+5nCjMrzzjjDonLCe7FMTf5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9E5CBDBE-1D9C-4088-9689-ED92B0B1BFBF@novate-it.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHF22SxfXaCuD5Z3FZBfBnM0xhV+Cc4nLiLVuko44rvUzbDj0A@mail.gmail.com>

:-)

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:

> > Crikey that must be the longest 3-6 months of anyone's life on offer
> right there
>
>
> Good grief man, you actually want to enjoy your job?!?!?! Fussy blighter!
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 09:15:52 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:15:52 +0100
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
Message-ID: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

A friend and I are building a python app for book nerds and, in order to
make user management easier, would like to use google for logins.  We
thought about Facebook but users seem to perceive it as a bit intrusive.

Has anyone used Google for app logins and have any stories or examples to
show? Some actual python code examples would be awesome if you have them.

Ta,

Andrew

From matt at quernus.co.uk  Thu Mar 26 09:23:26 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:23:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC17BC51-6A07-4C50-92BF-47259915199E@quernus.co.uk>


> On 26 Mar 2015, at 09:15, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> A friend and I are building a python app for book nerds and, in order to
> make user management easier, would like to use google for logins.  We
> thought about Facebook but users seem to perceive it as a bit intrusive.
> 
> Has anyone used Google for app logins and have any stories or examples to
> show? Some actual python code examples would be awesome if you have them.


Check out Velruse:

https://velruse.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ <https://velruse.readthedocs.org/en/latest/>

I?ve used it before on various projects. It abstracts away the social auth, so you could use Google or Facebook or Twitter etc.

It can either run standalone as it?s own Pyramid app and accessed via a REST API, or you can include it in your own app.

-Matt


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From shane at mcewan.id.au  Thu Mar 26 10:26:42 2015
From: shane at mcewan.id.au (Shane McEwan)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:26:42 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>

On 26/03/15 09:15, Andrew Holway wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> A friend and I are building a python app for book nerds and, in order to
> make user management easier, would like to use google for logins.  We
> thought about Facebook but users seem to perceive it as a bit intrusive.
> 
> Has anyone used Google for app logins and have any stories or examples to
> show? Some actual python code examples would be awesome if you have them.

Whatever you do, please also provide an option for non-social
(anti-social?) logins. It's not just Facebook that is intrusive.

Shane.



From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 10:34:56 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:34:56 +0100
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Whatever you do, please also provide an option for non-social
> (anti-social?) logins. It's not just Facebook that is intrusive.
>

The idea of using social logins it to avoid having to do password
management stuff for our minimum viable product.

Its something for a backlog.

From me at amias.net  Thu Mar 26 11:17:52 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:17:52 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XUiU1PbtrJdQtH7oiHPWyfQoQ54N7cCpaxCn8HwOs_gmg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Andrew,

Another thing to consider for your backlog is that if you use a third party
login for a site that is accessed from differing environments (e.g work or
home) that you might not want to use the same auth provider in both. For
example I don't use facebook at work and sites that i've created a logins
with fb credentials on are unavailable at work. It should be possible to
have a basic user and pw login fallback or multiple auth providers for a
single login. I also have two google accounts logged in (both domain ones)
and most plugins get confused by this and just choose one randomly

Cheers
Amias



On 26 March 2015 at 10:34, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > Whatever you do, please also provide an option for non-social
> > (anti-social?) logins. It's not just Facebook that is intrusive.
> >
>
> The idea of using social logins it to avoid having to do password
> management stuff for our minimum viable product.
>
> Its something for a backlog.
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Thu Mar 26 12:08:16 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:08:16 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>

Andrew Holway wrote:
> The idea of using social logins it to avoid having to do password
> management stuff for our minimum viable product.

OK, but even then, one should be something non-sinister like openID...

Thanks,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html



From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 12:40:46 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:40:46 +0100
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>

> OK, but even then, one should be something non-sinister like openID...
>

I would agree with that however openID seems to have died the death...

From fiznool at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 12:45:29 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:45:29 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>

> The idea of using social logins it to avoid having to do password
management stuff for our minimum viable product.

I am doing the same for the app I'm currently working on, and it works well
not having to worry about password storage, forgotten password links,
changing password pages, etc. Just make sure there is big text on your
login page saying that it is for authentication only, and that you won't
post to their wall, spam their friends, etc.

To reinforce this, set the OAuth scope to the most basic of permissions, so
the user doesn't get a page full of permission requests.

The Google docs are a good place to start. If you are only looking at
Google login then it's pretty straightforward to use Google+ Sign In.

https://developers.google.com/+/api/oauth

On 26 March 2015 at 12:40, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:

> > OK, but even then, one should be something non-sinister like openID...
> >
>
> I would agree with that however openID seems to have died the death...
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From me at amias.net  Thu Mar 26 13:44:07 2015
From: me at amias.net (Amias Channer)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:44:07 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMgU7XUv3EbsaJs9BjBWiCcE9Mi=-nCYFcRoqbVUsHFqE=p9_Q@mail.gmail.com>

>  openID seems to have died the death..

on a windy clifftop with only oauth and facebook connect as witnesses ...

Cheers
Amias

On 26 March 2015 at 12:40, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:

> > OK, but even then, one should be something non-sinister like openID...
> >
>
> I would agree with that however openID seems to have died the death...
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Thu Mar 26 13:49:12 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:49:12 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>

On 03/26/15 12:45, Tom Spencer wrote:
> Just make sure there is big text on your
> login page saying that it is for authentication only, and that you won't
> post to their wall, spam their friends, etc.
> 
> To reinforce this, set the OAuth scope to the most basic of permissions, so
> the user doesn't get a page full of permission requests.

And make sure that your permission request does not include permission
to post to their wall, spam their friends, etc.

> On 26 March 2015 at 12:40, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I would agree with that however openID seems to have died the death...

It's still alive and in daily use by many sites, so what do you mean by
that?  Do you just mean that you don't use it?

Regards,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/


From fiznool at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 13:57:01 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:57:01 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9bCP85jaj_4g113qPfd6Nb5F0ZqMe9tyTHk1aeePW2+yQ@mail.gmail.com>

> And make sure that your permission request does not include permission
to post to their wall, spam their friends, etc.

Yep - that's what the OAuth 'scope' parameter is used for.
https://developers.google.com/+/api/oauth#scopes

On 26 March 2015 at 13:49, MJ Ray <mjr at phonecoop.coop> wrote:

> On 03/26/15 12:45, Tom Spencer wrote:
> > Just make sure there is big text on your
> > login page saying that it is for authentication only, and that you won't
> > post to their wall, spam their friends, etc.
> >
> > To reinforce this, set the OAuth scope to the most basic of permissions,
> so
> > the user doesn't get a page full of permission requests.
>
> And make sure that your permission request does not include permission
> to post to their wall, spam their friends, etc.
>
> > On 26 March 2015 at 12:40, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > I would agree with that however openID seems to have died the death...
>
> It's still alive and in daily use by many sites, so what do you mean by
> that?  Do you just mean that you don't use it?
>
> Regards,
> --
> MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
> In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
> Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:08:15 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:08:15 +0100
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It's still alive and in daily use by many sites, so what do you mean by
> that?


*awkward silence*

From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:13:17 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:13:17 +0100
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, 26 March 2015, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's still alive and in daily use by many sites, so what do you mean by
>> that?
>
>
> *awkward silence*
>

I think what they tried to do was very awesome and they pushed the realm of
"identity science" a long way but I think its clear that they missed the
critical mass reqd for internet ubiquity.

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Thu Mar 26 14:29:28 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:29:28 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZMADhCBDWqeZCmVD9EzfwgGKubiyAa1i8iOp6pYN3y_ag@mail.gmail.com>

OpenID 2.0 for Google accounts is going away.

Developers should migrate to OpenID Connect by April 20, 2105.

---------------

That's copied from the auth page of my app which I will be converting to
Google+ Auth soon obviously...

On 26 March 2015 at 14:13, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 26 March 2015, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's still alive and in daily use by many sites, so what do you mean by
> >> that?
> >
> >
> > *awkward silence*
> >
>
> I think what they tried to do was very awesome and they pushed the realm of
> "identity science" a long way but I think its clear that they missed the
> critical mass reqd for internet ubiquity.
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From oliward at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 14:49:32 2015
From: oliward at gmail.com (Oli Ward)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:49:32 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
Message-ID: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi scorers,

I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can get
into it.

I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.

For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to build
HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon company
doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This gave
me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role
as a senior developer.

In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
little you know!

I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all the
routes in my article.

Cheers

Oli Ward

w: developme.training

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Thu Mar 26 14:52:21 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:52:21 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>

Exactly the same except I never got into Photoshop and I stuck it out with
ASP...

Personally I think HTML is a dead simple way of kicking things off...

On 26 March 2015 at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi scorers,
>
> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can get
> into it.
>
> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
>
> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to build
> HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon company
> doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This gave
> me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
> beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
> better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role
> as a senior developer.
>
> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
> little you know!
>
> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all the
> routes in my article.
>
> Cheers
>
> Oli Ward
>
> w: developme.training
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From mjr at phonecoop.coop  Thu Mar 26 14:56:13 2015
From: mjr at phonecoop.coop (MJ Ray)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:56:13 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55141E0D.1050008@phonecoop.coop>

Andrew Holway wrote:
> I think what they tried to do was very awesome and they pushed the realm of
> "identity science" a long way but I think its clear that they missed the
> critical mass reqd for internet ubiquity.

I'd say "haven't yet achieved the critical mass". ;-) It's still a
useful solution to allow access by people who don't want to be tracked
as much for various reasons and there seems little reason not to keep it
in the mix.  It's certainly a lot slower-moving target than the upgrade
treadmills driven by G**gl*, Tw*tter, ...

Regards,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/


From carl at sargunar.com  Thu Mar 26 15:09:54 2015
From: carl at sargunar.com (Carl Sargunar)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:09:54 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRL4J9=xVgNSLbJA_D8gwC_XgM05NrDqKoTAWjkp1Xmf5AJLw@mail.gmail.com>

I suspect a lot of similar stories. I taught myself ASP classic in the mid
90s from several websites, then went and did an engineering degree, then
decided there's more fun to be had programming so tought myself C++, then
got a job as a C# developer then taught myself everything else I needed to
know, blagged a few interviews, jumped ship a few times, spent many years
in the trenches getting experience dealing with problems at 3 in the
morning.

Move fast, and don't get too comfortable is a mantra that's served me well
- and continues to do so.

In some respects it's never been easier to get into the field, but in some
respects the breadth and depth of the market now is so huge that you need
to be really good at what you do to get anywhere, but honestly it's such a
great time to be in the market right now

Vive la revolution!!
?

From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Thu Mar 26 15:11:34 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:11:34 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB4799AFFD995338F055ED73EE9080@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I was in IT Support for many years and, due to lack of work up north, ended up taking a reports analyst job. The job required analysis of significant data that wasn't captured in any meaningful way, so I started writing automated spreadsheets with VBA and then fully fledged VB6 apps to capture the data I needed. In order to provide useful data to the clients I wanted to use the web so I learned ASP then ASP.net, JavaScript and CSS, quickly moving from VB.Net (which is horrible) to C#. From there I was hooked.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Free
Sent: 26 March 2015 14:52
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] How did you become a developer?

Exactly the same except I never got into Photoshop and I stuck it out with ASP...

Personally I think HTML is a dead simple way of kicking things off...

On 26 March 2015 at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi scorers,
>
> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can 
> get into it.
>
> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it 
> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
>
> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to 
> build HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a 
> cartoon company doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site 
> on the side. This gave me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and 
> that was the start of a beautiful career! From there I did freelance 
> PHP sites and started seeing better ways of working with frameworks 
> and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role as a senior developer.
>
> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding 
> how little you know!
>
> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all 
> the routes in my article.
>
> Cheers
>
> Oli Ward
>
> w: developme.training
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the sender.
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From jamie at linuxufo.com  Thu Mar 26 15:31:47 2015
From: jamie at linuxufo.com (James Andrews)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:31:47 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAFRL4J9=xVgNSLbJA_D8gwC_XgM05NrDqKoTAWjkp1Xmf5AJLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFRL4J9=xVgNSLbJA_D8gwC_XgM05NrDqKoTAWjkp1Xmf5AJLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALohmFKjO2PLutNJt41G_Hss--sZv-tpLvLUTcC4uWy_iaf_9g@mail.gmail.com>

I was trying to run computer games in the 80s

They all came in magazines, as listings.  They all had bugs and errors or
were mistyped.  So I learnt to program to be able to fix them.
After this I started writing my own games for the other people at school to
use

When I eventually got a job "doing computers" thankfully it wasn't as a
developer (or programmer as they were called then)

Tread softly and carry a big stick  is a mantra that's served me well

Around 2000 at the time of the Internet boom everyone regardless of their
expertise or natural talents suddenly became an IT speciallist, often
overnight.
Nowadays this is less true but there is a feeling that if you can watch
netflix you know how the Internet works

Viva Las Vegas, as Elvis often said once a day and twice on Saturdays

On 26 March 2015 at 15:09, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:

> I suspect a lot of similar stories. I taught myself ASP classic in the mid
> 90s from several websites, then went and did an engineering degree, then
> decided there's more fun to be had programming so tought myself C++, then
> got a job as a C# developer then taught myself everything else I needed to
> know, blagged a few interviews, jumped ship a few times, spent many years
> in the trenches getting experience dealing with problems at 3 in the
> morning.
>
> Move fast, and don't get too comfortable is a mantra that's served me well
> - and continues to do so.
>
> In some respects it's never been easier to get into the field, but in some
> respects the breadth and depth of the market now is so huge that you need
> to be really good at what you do to get anywhere, but honestly it's such a
> great time to be in the market right now
>
> Vive la revolution!!
> ?
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From carl at sargunar.com  Thu Mar 26 15:36:25 2015
From: carl at sargunar.com (Carl Sargunar)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:36:25 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CALohmFKjO2PLutNJt41G_Hss--sZv-tpLvLUTcC4uWy_iaf_9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFRL4J9=xVgNSLbJA_D8gwC_XgM05NrDqKoTAWjkp1Xmf5AJLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFKjO2PLutNJt41G_Hss--sZv-tpLvLUTcC4uWy_iaf_9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFRL4J-Rhq1j2mKX_mDXiu9RB8wtGb28Sc6ToYyb7qNu6B7KDg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Tread softly and carry a big stick  is a mantra that's served me well
>

That's my second mantra. Also Don't eat the yellow snow and Don't throw the
brick straight up

From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 15:53:46 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:53:46 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <DB4PR05MB4799AFFD995338F055ED73EE9080@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB4799AFFD995338F055ED73EE9080@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKLcwK1CMUM8vTV-ntS=_CYx_i9tWFABaRoQ63gyjCGjpA@mail.gmail.com>

It just started with HTML for me - I hadn't even used the internet
before (1997), stuck in temping jobs trying to get a job in a
completely different discipline, I bought "HTML for dummies" so I
could put my CV on the internet, hoping that might help me get a job
related to my degree in Environmental Science. Then despite my very
basic skillset I was lucky enough to get a "web designer" job off the
back of a few sites I put together and just learned what I needed on
the job - Photoshop, basic JS, Classic ASP, PHP, MySQL, becoming a
ninja in framesets and nested table layouts, like all the cool kids
were doing in 98,  brief diversions into Flash and Actionscript, back
to the drawing board to learn CSS layouts in the early '00's, several
years working at agencies cranking out websites and bespoke CMSes
without learning much new, before learning Python, OO PHP, more
JavaScript, a bunch of different frameworks (front and back-end),
still learning something new with each project I take on.

I'm lucky enough to have learned all this for free from colleagues and
public internet resources, and only needed a book (didn't even need
that really), a modem, a cheap PC and a bunch of (mostly) free
software to get started.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Keith Jackson
<keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
> I was in IT Support for many years and, due to lack of work up north, ended up taking a reports analyst job. The job required analysis of significant data that wasn't captured in any meaningful way, so I started writing automated spreadsheets with VBA and then fully fledged VB6 apps to capture the data I needed. In order to provide useful data to the clients I wanted to use the web so I learned ASP then ASP.net, JavaScript and CSS, quickly moving from VB.Net (which is horrible) to C#. From there I was hooked.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Jon Free
> Sent: 26 March 2015 14:52
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] How did you become a developer?
>
> Exactly the same except I never got into Photoshop and I stuck it out with ASP...
>
> Personally I think HTML is a dead simple way of kicking things off...
>
> On 26 March 2015 at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi scorers,
>>
>> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can
>> get into it.
>>
>> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
>> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
>>
>> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to
>> build HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a
>> cartoon company doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site
>> on the side. This gave me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and
>> that was the start of a beautiful career! From there I did freelance
>> PHP sites and started seeing better ways of working with frameworks
>> and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role as a senior developer.
>>
>> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding
>> how little you know!
>>
>> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all
>> the routes in my article.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Oli Ward
>>
>> w: developme.training
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jon Free
>
> WasteSource
>
> 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
>
> wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
>
> Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
>
> Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the sender.
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From mail at azulinho.com  Thu Mar 26 16:35:32 2015
From: mail at azulinho.com (Azul)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:35:32 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CALohmFKjO2PLutNJt41G_Hss--sZv-tpLvLUTcC4uWy_iaf_9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFRL4J9=xVgNSLbJA_D8gwC_XgM05NrDqKoTAWjkp1Xmf5AJLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALohmFKjO2PLutNJt41G_Hss--sZv-tpLvLUTcC4uWy_iaf_9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMP=owi0gT8t9Gxv+CwzLKT51yw5tfwFG5Ahp2Df9g+ZnRz0iA@mail.gmail.com>

"How did you become a developer?"

Do I look like one?

On 26 March 2015 at 15:31, James Andrews <jamie at linuxufo.com> wrote:

> I was trying to run computer games in the 80s
>
> They all came in magazines, as listings.  They all had bugs and errors or
> were mistyped.  So I learnt to program to be able to fix them.
> After this I started writing my own games for the other people at school to
> use
>
> When I eventually got a job "doing computers" thankfully it wasn't as a
> developer (or programmer as they were called then)
>
> Tread softly and carry a big stick  is a mantra that's served me well
>
> Around 2000 at the time of the Internet boom everyone regardless of their
> expertise or natural talents suddenly became an IT speciallist, often
> overnight.
> Nowadays this is less true but there is a feeling that if you can watch
> netflix you know how the Internet works
>
> Viva Las Vegas, as Elvis often said once a day and twice on Saturdays
>
> On 26 March 2015 at 15:09, Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> wrote:
>
> > I suspect a lot of similar stories. I taught myself ASP classic in the
> mid
> > 90s from several websites, then went and did an engineering degree, then
> > decided there's more fun to be had programming so tought myself C++, then
> > got a job as a C# developer then taught myself everything else I needed
> to
> > know, blagged a few interviews, jumped ship a few times, spent many years
> > in the trenches getting experience dealing with problems at 3 in the
> > morning.
> >
> > Move fast, and don't get too comfortable is a mantra that's served me
> well
> > - and continues to do so.
> >
> > In some respects it's never been easier to get into the field, but in
> some
> > respects the breadth and depth of the market now is so huge that you need
> > to be really good at what you do to get anywhere, but honestly it's such
> a
> > great time to be in the market right now
> >
> > Vive la revolution!!
> > ?
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From fiznool at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 16:46:08 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:46:08 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAGKubKLcwK1CMUM8vTV-ntS=_CYx_i9tWFABaRoQ63gyjCGjpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZPBmn6vqT7bkTjpCSd8cyHoCXdfrnBLvSQkyZQQdRqrAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <DB4PR05MB4799AFFD995338F055ED73EE9080@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGKubKLcwK1CMUM8vTV-ntS=_CYx_i9tWFABaRoQ63gyjCGjpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9a8atvCQqXkF1aSxH3MaVk5Y3wz9vYq3AScF4mhh1YJSw@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm lucky enough to have learned all this for free from colleagues and public
internet resources

I think that's one of the best things about our profession - the number of
free, quality resources out there to help train as a 'web professional' -
even if you have previously studied something completely different, it's a
door open to many, with very little barriers.

On 26 March 2015 at 15:53, Rick Hurst <rick.hurst at gmail.com> wrote:

> It just started with HTML for me - I hadn't even used the internet
> before (1997), stuck in temping jobs trying to get a job in a
> completely different discipline, I bought "HTML for dummies" so I
> could put my CV on the internet, hoping that might help me get a job
> related to my degree in Environmental Science. Then despite my very
> basic skillset I was lucky enough to get a "web designer" job off the
> back of a few sites I put together and just learned what I needed on
> the job - Photoshop, basic JS, Classic ASP, PHP, MySQL, becoming a
> ninja in framesets and nested table layouts, like all the cool kids
> were doing in 98,  brief diversions into Flash and Actionscript, back
> to the drawing board to learn CSS layouts in the early '00's, several
> years working at agencies cranking out websites and bespoke CMSes
> without learning much new, before learning Python, OO PHP, more
> JavaScript, a bunch of different frameworks (front and back-end),
> still learning something new with each project I take on.
>
> I'm lucky enough to have learned all this for free from colleagues and
> public internet resources, and only needed a book (didn't even need
> that really), a modem, a cheap PC and a bunch of (mostly) free
> software to get started.
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Keith Jackson
> <keith at ministryotech.co.uk> wrote:
> > I was in IT Support for many years and, due to lack of work up north,
> ended up taking a reports analyst job. The job required analysis of
> significant data that wasn't captured in any meaningful way, so I started
> writing automated spreadsheets with VBA and then fully fledged VB6 apps to
> capture the data I needed. In order to provide useful data to the clients I
> wanted to use the web so I learned ASP then ASP.net, JavaScript and CSS,
> quickly moving from VB.Net (which is horrible) to C#. From there I was
> hooked.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> Behalf Of Jon Free
> > Sent: 26 March 2015 14:52
> > To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: [_] How did you become a developer?
> >
> > Exactly the same except I never got into Photoshop and I stuck it out
> with ASP...
> >
> > Personally I think HTML is a dead simple way of kicking things off...
> >
> > On 26 March 2015 at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi scorers,
> >>
> >> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can
> >> get into it.
> >>
> >> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> >> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
> >>
> >> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to
> >> build HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a
> >> cartoon company doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site
> >> on the side. This gave me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and
> >> that was the start of a beautiful career! From there I did freelance
> >> PHP sites and started seeing better ways of working with frameworks
> >> and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role as a senior developer.
> >>
> >> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding
> >> how little you know!
> >>
> >> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all
> >> the routes in my article.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Oli Ward
> >>
> >> w: developme.training
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jon Free
> >
> > WasteSource
> >
> > 07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259
> >
> > wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> |
> @wastesource <https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>
> >
> > Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF
> >
> > Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use
> of the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of
> the contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
> unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
> message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
> sender.
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Hurst
> http://www.rickhurst.co.uk
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Thu Mar 26 17:00:12 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:00:12 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK0ichJMTYMREGC6rJX8VGC1fKyuuXKkRPydeWpyC08wzgmVA@mail.gmail.com>

I was playing with BBC Basic, Quick Basic and DOS batch files when I
was a kid... from there it kinda spiralled. I guess I had a natural
interest in trying to get the computer to do something cool...

On 26 March 2015 at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi scorers,
>
> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can get
> into it.
>
> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
>
> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to build
> HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon company
> doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This gave
> me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
> beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
> better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role
> as a senior developer.
>
> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
> little you know!
>
> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all the
> routes in my article.
>
> Cheers
>
> Oli Ward
>
> w: developme.training
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk


From christopher at mckirgan.com  Thu Mar 26 16:54:33 2015
From: christopher at mckirgan.com (Christopher Mckirgan)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:54:33 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
Message-ID: <CAHsgM6Mqnsf5L7DJF5-C9g-oybf1nCBMgMyuxvrY2rSQbYn8PA@mail.gmail.com>

TLDNR:
self taught, life-long learner, trial and error, don't be afraid to break
things, everyone is amateur (or lying).

I started developing when I was 11 in school (self taught). I wasn't
allowed to do P.E (for medical reasons) so was told to study in the
library. In reality I spent every "study" session on the web (early
2000's). I was fascinated with technology, and in particular the web.

I read that I could customise the colours of a profile page I had, and
having done some experimenting, achieved some success. I started to read up
the, once very little, accessible HTML/CSS resources. I set-up a website on
"freewebs", I learnt that you can "right-click->view source" and learnt all
the basics through trial and error and messing around with HTML in notepad
copy and pasted onto floppy disk and Compact cards over a USB cable (which
got be banned from the library computers for a while as they had no idea
what I had attached to the PC's).

I went to college and studied Visual Basic 6.0, and immediately started
learning Javascript and PHP on the side. I took up a web contract through
contacts I knew when I just turned 17 and have been doing freelancing since.

Following God's call, I spent 3 years studying at a Bible College
(Moorlands Theology College), upon returning I sought out a junior role
maintaining email servers and coding HTML email, then shortly after got a
role as a back-end web developer, a job or two on from that I started
working here at The Agency.

And here I am.

From mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com  Thu Mar 26 17:25:25 2015
From: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com (Mark Chitty)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:25:25 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAHsgM6Mqnsf5L7DJF5-C9g-oybf1nCBMgMyuxvrY2rSQbYn8PA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHsgM6Mqnsf5L7DJF5-C9g-oybf1nCBMgMyuxvrY2rSQbYn8PA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+=VEhnzCkzS7nMXNPqqm=Y6wVRp1gPi-nayZA31nE6O5+sUDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I started out tinkering with a Z80 training board when I was about 10. I
think I made it do traffic lights, then I progressed to BBC Basic.

I'm what's known as an early developer.

<runs>

m

-- 
Mark Chitty
thisLiquidSpace Ltd
Web: Publishing, mobile, communities and commerce.
-
web: thisliquidspace.com
email: mark.chitty at thisliquidspace.com
skype: markchitty
mobile: 0777 3392821
-

From tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk  Thu Mar 26 15:07:45 2015
From: tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk (Tom WHITE)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:07:45 +0000
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
In-Reply-To: <CAPBFXdfnXAtWKTepKZNsC6cLF0dR=Ei8kmbMhe4qVh9sgsEfBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99BC61822B8B7B4CA0687A25B9EACBE2CEE71F@SPANUK-SBS.spanuk.local>
 <CAGobHERKP_MyeVnfwVi+t7ahh+O0k9Ob3wxUJdUdQRLNKU37Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <AM2PR04MB0738206E1333DA4AE6F80794E70B0@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <7AA54BB6-8D57-413F-8417-0D5E7F9BBC54@wincstudio.co.uk>
 <DB4PR05MB479CD02313AF7C4F2215707E90B0@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAPBFXdfnXAtWKTepKZNsC6cLF0dR=Ei8kmbMhe4qVh9sgsEfBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM2PR04MB07386354B87A546EF3CC1587E7080@AM2PR04MB0738.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Well no, not every SoC but from an SoC standpoint. 

MAC OS X Internals, its more Embedded and probably not suited to the group.

Thanks though :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of James Bewley
Sent: 25 March 2015 17:35
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role

So they are looking for someone who understands the internals of all operating systems and knows the architecture of every SoC?

Yeah that really cleared things up!

On Wednesday, 25 March 2015, Keith Jackson <keith at ministryotech.co.uk <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','keith at ministryotech.co.uk');>> wrote:

> I'm a full stack dev and tech consultant and I probably only got about 5%.
>
> I feel the target audience may be a bit off..
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> Behalf Of Paddy Winsley
> Sent: 25 March 2015 16:36
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
>
> Coming from more of a design background, I understood exactly 0% of 
> that description
>
> :s
>
> --
> Thanks and regards
> Paddy Winsley
> Creative Director
> -------------------------
> www.wincstudio.co.uk
>
>
> > On 25 Mar 2015, at 16:18, Tom WHITE <tomwhite at peoplesource.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately not, perhaps I can be a little more precise.
> >
> > We are looking for people who understand Operating Systems 
> > Internals, so
> not just at App Level, so not interested in people who just use obj-c 
> to create apps etc.
> >
> > The role really requires an old hand in OS porting across various
> hardware using video streams, knowledge of transport streams and 
> compression systems advantageous but not important.
> >
> > Really we want someone that understands Embedded Architecture from a 
> > SoC
> standpoint who can confidently work from Interrupt and BSP level upwards.
> >
> > Hope this helps and apologies if I caused any confusion.
> >
> > The role is predominately home based as well.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> > Behalf Of Tom Holder
> > Sent: 25 March 2015 10:28
> > To: underscore
> > Subject: Re: [_] MAC OS X Contract Role
> >
> > Typo sounds too kinda. Typical recruiter brain fart seems more apt?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > On 25 March 2015 at 10:23, Paddy Uglow <Paddy at spanuk.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I was a bit confused by this too - I assumed it must make sense to 
> >> those in the know.
> >> I'm working from home on OS X right now - Anyone want to refer me 
> >> for
> >> 800 quid? ;-)
> >> - Paddy
> >>
> >>>> Hello [_]
> >>>>
> >>>> We have a MAC OS X Contract role for a client of ours in Reading.
> >>>> 6
> >>> Months
> >>>> rolling. The role is 90% work from home with just the occasional, 
> >>>> and
> >> we
> >>>> mean occasional visit on site.
> >>>>
> >>>> We can pay up to ?550 per day for the position.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please apply to tom at peoplesource.co.uk if you would like to find 
> >>>> out
> >>> more
> >>>> information.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not for you? Refer a friend and earn up to ?800 if we place them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >>
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From matt at mattpass.com  Thu Mar 26 17:47:42 2015
From: matt at mattpass.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 17:47:42 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
Message-ID: <2l2r5iotc6iabbeojs4baidf.1427385682023@email.android.com>

TLDR = hacker > designer > dev.
First experience was programming the 'turtle' on BBC computers at primary school. However, things really clicked for me when I got a Spectrum one Christmas and started messing about with Basic. Writing my own games was awesome, and free fun!
Growing up and getting past primary school I learnt how to mess about with the network on Nimbus at secondary school and got caught by the IT admin. Damn! Rather than report me though he invited me to his house and showed me how to really hack things.
This was it for me - BBS, Assembly, SoftIce, cracking and piracy rings were my amazing new worlds now. We customised games and cracked software, dialed up services we shouldn't and generally caused a bit of a nuisance. I was young and stupid but it was so exciting.
It was simply the fear of dissapointing my mum that I refrained from doing much worse things. My dad was dying and I couldn't bring her anymore heartache. I was reading endless material on phreaking, war dialing, viruses and cracking by now but doing far less, really getting into my 3D games (Doom II, Duke Nukem 3D etc). Thankfully the internet started to get less rubbish as we went from 9.6k to 14.4k to 28.8k modems. Times were a changin' as graphics became more and more a reality!
Finally heading onto college and miracuously avoiding detection, (tho I am sure they were tapping my mums phoneline), I realised I could combine my graphics skills with my love for programming and an evolving internet to make great looking websites. There seemed much less risk in a career here and I could make a living.
HTML was still pretty rubbish so I moved into Flash and 3D work which I really enjoyed and my interest in the dark side began to waiver as I found it almost as much fun to build rather than break things.
First real web job was about 16 years ago, started building websites above a chip shop with some other newbs. We got quite good tho and got massive investment by an entrepreneur in the 1999+ dot com boom. Parties, casinos, holidays, huge events and rock stars all ensued, was absolutely mental. Lost my job in the bust tho and so started my own company with the pennies I'd earnt.
The next 7 years I got heavily into my graphics and got finally bored of reading about hacking, now battling on the 'visual' front. Plus I was a businessman now. Yeah, right!
Did OK for a few years but sold my company to another and started picking up dev skills after being a job by the purchasers. I realised after 5 years tho I wasn't going to get a promotion or pay rise and started looking for another job with better pay. However, being a web designer was more common and harder to get noticed. I needed a tweak on my career.
I got that break whilst snowboarding. Yeah, cliche I know, but I was getting offered an interview on the phone whilst at the top of a mountain. Cool or what? Trouble is, I had to be a dev, not a designer.
Despite the lack of experience, I got the job as I was so enthusiastic. The next few years I kept improving my dev skills as I was the only true 'web guy' in the company - the others being just graphic designers. I had to learn this stuff.
That company went bust and I then went freelance, realising I could earn much more and do what I wanted. Never looked back since.
Not bad for a cheesy lil' hacker. ;-)
Matt





Sent from my Samsung device

-------- Original message --------
From: Carl Sargunar <carl at sargunar.com> 
Date: 26/03/2015  15:36  (GMT+00:00) 
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk 
Subject: Re: [_] How did you become a developer? 

>
> Tread softly and carry a big stick? is a mantra that's served me well
>

That's my second mantra. Also Don't eat the yellow snow and Don't throw the
brick straight up
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From thpushman at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 20:17:58 2015
From: thpushman at gmail.com (Tim Pushman)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 20:17:58 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZMADhCBDWqeZCmVD9EzfwgGKubiyAa1i8iOp6pYN3y_ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZMADhCBDWqeZCmVD9EzfwgGKubiyAa1i8iOp6pYN3y_ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHmnKdm+k0oSq+hKG3KidkcjwmFGuEYsW_AuunRcAgKysPuW1w@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2015 at 14:29, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:

> OpenID 2.0 for Google accounts is going away.
>
> Developers should migrate to OpenID Connect by April 20, 2105.
>

We'll all be dead by then...

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 08:40:17 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 08:40:17 +0000
Subject: [_] Using google for user auth
In-Reply-To: <CAHmnKdm+k0oSq+hKG3KidkcjwmFGuEYsW_AuunRcAgKysPuW1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-spReeCSyJnQFsxuXSiCfwokTKXNzrpfnYEKGGBJLAVcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513DEE2.2000002@mcewan.id.au>
 <CAEiui-udsQrC+Pv0XgZVoz-aP=XHv1kjsi5Q0AW77qv5JQ5_ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <5513F6B0.6050303@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-uEJCOUNgw7svAfV-3wU2fr1cMaN_+UFqPVuhryjbCbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAER4s9Z7avm+-P88zfh--uWReVu+U4rVkVW0WMR4tjqOhb035w@mail.gmail.com>
 <55140E58.1060606@phonecoop.coop>
 <CAEiui-tuYfzHZ2ovUNDYc0KnREJnNJ6+fAsEunjhYK9WwAU7mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEiui-uXDRZE4VJzw5VOHZAJ9RPK_4GhbUUK4x2AMgHpHj7Mqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJwc0ZMADhCBDWqeZCmVD9EzfwgGKubiyAa1i8iOp6pYN3y_ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHmnKdm+k0oSq+hKG3KidkcjwmFGuEYsW_AuunRcAgKysPuW1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzgJHY5aa0CRomAWFR-TnWSB0+S382YHsTsCuPpO7S7=nA@mail.gmail.com>

On 26 March 2015 at 20:17, Tim Pushman <thpushman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 March 2015 at 14:29, Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> OpenID 2.0 for Google accounts is going away.
>>
>> Developers should migrate to OpenID Connect by April 20, 2105.
>>
>
> We'll all be dead by then...

He's right! I'd wager the great grand children will be in a flap on
April 19th. 2105 trying to update all the legacy code, some things
will never change.

Steve


From stewart at novate-it.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 09:11:08 2015
From: stewart at novate-it.co.uk (Stewart)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:11:08 +0000
Subject: [_] Leftfield @ o2 Academy - 11/06/2015
Message-ID: <5bde8628d691449cbe2b14943161a4ac@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>

I know we have some fans of electronic music on [_] so thought I'd let you know tickets for this have just come on sale.

Cheers

Stew

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
______________________________________________________________________

From jez at netcraft.com  Fri Mar 27 11:17:12 2015
From: jez at netcraft.com (Jeremy Prior)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 11:17:12 +0000
Subject: [_] Leftfield @ o2 Academy - 11/06/2015
In-Reply-To: <5bde8628d691449cbe2b14943161a4ac@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
References: <5bde8628d691449cbe2b14943161a4ac@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
Message-ID: <10B99EB0-ECEC-4C33-88A9-501BCB00DBE5@netcraft.com>


> On Fri 27 Mar 2015, at 09:11:08, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I know we have some fans of electronic music on [_] so thought I'd let you know tickets for this have just come on sale.

http://www.o2academybristol.co.uk/event/75738/leftfield-tickets

Saw them at Glastonbury sometime in the ?00?s - brilliant!

???
-- 
Jeremy Prior
jez at netcraft.com








From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 11:19:02 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 11:19:02 +0000
Subject: [_] Office Manager needed - Can you recommend anyone?
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB479C2A56D6A3053BBB05011E9090@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Morning all,

The agency that I'm working with at the moment are looking for a new office manager for their Bristol office, which has expanded massively over the last 6 months, if you know anyone with Office management, PA or secretarial experience that likes working with techies and creative types they're a really nice company to work for.

http://www.somoglobal.com/job-offer/executive-assistant-office-manager/


From damian.webber at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 12:18:26 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 12:18:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
Message-ID: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>

Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I
thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their
client's development environments

Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.

Example:
A new web site for a client requires 4 environments,
DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)

Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
* Load balancer
* Terminal Services Server
* Two Web Servers (presentation)
* Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
* Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
* Active Directory Server
* Antivirus Server


My non-production environments have
* Load Balancer
* Terminal Services Server
* 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
* 2 app servers (UAT:2)
* 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
* Active Directory Server


That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the customer

Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money
Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances
for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months and
then get spun up again when changes are required

So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also
charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')

I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the
development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more than
wages)




*Damian Webber*
Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
@damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 12:39:50 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 12:39:50 +0000
Subject: [_] Leftfield @ o2 Academy - 11/06/2015
In-Reply-To: <10B99EB0-ECEC-4C33-88A9-501BCB00DBE5@netcraft.com>
References: <5bde8628d691449cbe2b14943161a4ac@SEHSTE15D2BE5.hs20.net>
 <10B99EB0-ECEC-4C33-88A9-501BCB00DBE5@netcraft.com>
Message-ID: <CACeWpzjo2LVcMPiTRx2yi26XJv6nvFRtFuU9zfaDn+8p=Luetw@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 March 2015 at 11:17, Jeremy Prior <jez at netcraft.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri 27 Mar 2015, at 09:11:08, Stewart <stewart at novate-it.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I know we have some fans of electronic music on [_] so thought I'd let you know tickets for this have just come on sale.
>
> http://www.o2academybristol.co.uk/event/75738/leftfield-tickets
>
> Saw them at Glastonbury sometime in the ?00?s - brilliant!
>
> ???

I've got two CDs

Steve


From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 12:42:38 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 12:42:38 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A687F150-CA44-47AF-A054-F0BD9D49937D@craigfrancis.co.uk>

Short/Stupid answer: Run Linux, be careful about code efficiency, and most websites will fit on one server :-P

Or the longer answer...

A laptop or desktop for local development work (OSX)... a single demo server (CentOS) that also does some extra office related stuff (time sheets, git, issue logs, etc)... and two old desktop computers that do offsite backups... all of that is at my expense (well, how its directly charged).

The demo server is using Apache with a wildcard setup, where the demo URL's are quite long, but define the folder that the client websites run under (so no need to edit the config).

So far I've never had a problem with load on these machines (currently averaging at 0.05).

The production websites for clients typically have their own single VM (CentOS, RedHat, or Debian), and the client pays for them directly... same with DNS and TLS certificates (I have a system that keeps an eye on their expiry dates, because people are forgetful)... this really helps with not having to collect payment from the client, and generally acting as a middle man (although most clients do pay a small maintenance fee, so I can keep an eye on logs, software patches, etc).

So far I've not needed more than one server for a website due to load... it can be nice to have multiple servers for uptime, but for my clients that isn't really an issue.

Craig







On 27 Mar 2015, at 12:18, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I
> thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their
> client's development environments
> 
> Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.
> 
> Example:
> A new web site for a client requires 4 environments,
> DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)
> 
> Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
> * Load balancer
> * Terminal Services Server
> * Two Web Servers (presentation)
> * Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
> * Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
> * Active Directory Server
> * Antivirus Server
> 
> 
> My non-production environments have
> * Load Balancer
> * Terminal Services Server
> * 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
> * 2 app servers (UAT:2)
> * 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
> * Active Directory Server
> 
> 
> That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the customer
> 
> Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money
> Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances
> for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months and
> then get spun up again when changes are required
> 
> So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also
> charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')
> 
> I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the
> development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more than
> wages)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Damian Webber*
> Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
> @damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 12:28:00 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 12:28:00 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB4PR05MB479F647137856332DBA09CBE9090@DB4PR05MB479.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I'd be tempted to use a single VM instance for your dev and test instances unless they are very hungry to keep costs down where you have enough clients. As long as you have staging / UAT mirroring live you're in a good position.

You need to ensure you can easily trash and rebuild your dev VM(s) though so imaging it regularly is a fairy good plan. In this scenario you swallow the costs of the dev and test setup into your own rates and you charge out the cloud hosted elements as being directly client facing and added value.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Damian Webber
Sent: 27 March 2015 12:18
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?

Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their client's development environments

Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.

Example:
A new web site for a client requires 4 environments, DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)

Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
* Load balancer
* Terminal Services Server
* Two Web Servers (presentation)
* Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
* Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
* Active Directory Server
* Antivirus Server


My non-production environments have
* Load Balancer
* Terminal Services Server
* 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
* 2 app servers (UAT:2)
* 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
* Active Directory Server


That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the customer

Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months and then get spun up again when changes are required

So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')

I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more than
wages)




*Damian Webber*
Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
@damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From dgilroy at conscious.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 13:24:13 2015
From: dgilroy at conscious.co.uk (David Gilroy | Conscious Solutions)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 13:24:13 +0000
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
Message-ID: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>

All disks cleaner.  Too old to do anything else pretty much.

What's the limit at the local tip?  Is six too many for "home use"?

D.



From nicrodgers at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 13:29:49 2015
From: nicrodgers at gmail.com (Nic Rodgers)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 13:29:49 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANGB9CC15Wpp_S3wsXgQtz-NnR9mkLUxq5peUND1cvOZknwAtQ@mail.gmail.com>

First thing I'd say is that the 10 server production environment you
describe doesn't really align with what I'd class as a "smaller
operation".  I'd say that's more 'mid level' (ok, that's vague too).

Having said that, if you're looking at that kind of set up, in the Drupal
world you'd be likely to get Acquia to host it. With that would come dev,
test (and optionally UAT, load test, etc) slots. All of which would be
covered by the same hosting agreement, which I would get the client to pay
for directly. Advantages of this (for the client) are a single supplier and
support & maintenance (with equal SLA) across all environments. Advantages
for the consultant - no server management issues, and doesn't affect cash
flow.  Yes, you may be able to shave a few ???s off the hosting by slimming
your pre-production environments, but hosting is cheaper than development,
so you more than make up for it by the time and cost savings from
identifying and fixing environment-related issues before they get to
production.

Nic

On 27 March 2015 at 12:18, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I
> thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their
> client's development environments
>
> Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.
>
> Example:
> A new web site for a client requires 4 environments,
> DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)
>
> Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
> * Load balancer
> * Terminal Services Server
> * Two Web Servers (presentation)
> * Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
> * Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
> * Active Directory Server
> * Antivirus Server
>
>
> My non-production environments have
> * Load Balancer
> * Terminal Services Server
> * 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
> * 2 app servers (UAT:2)
> * 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
> * Active Directory Server
>
>
> That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the customer
>
> Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money
> Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances
> for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months and
> then get spun up again when changes are required
>
> So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also
> charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')
>
> I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the
> development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more than
> wages)
>
>
>
>
> *Damian Webber*
> Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
> @damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From jon.free at wastesource.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 13:41:52 2015
From: jon.free at wastesource.co.uk (Jon Free)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 13:41:52 +0000
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
In-Reply-To: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
References: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAJwc0ZP=Kv1xD9T7f_3ev5vRNqet1hstmtYxbpfi3YSzacOk-Q@mail.gmail.com>

I wouldn't have thought they'd turn you away with that much. As long as you
go in a car!

Out of interest, how many people on Underscore regularly need PC's and
various other electronics removed from their site. Be that weekly, monthly,
or yearly? And has anyone tried to use a company to do this rather than
take it to the tip themselves, and how have said companies faired!

On 27 March 2015 at 13:24, David Gilroy|Conscious Solutions <
dgilroy at conscious.co.uk> wrote:

> All disks cleaner.  Too old to do anything else pretty much.
>
> What's the limit at the local tip?  Is six too many for "home use"?
>
> D.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 13:35:26 2015
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (Mike Karthauser)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 13:35:26 +0000
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
In-Reply-To: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
References: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CBD18F39-9FBC-4FB8-85FC-32B5B6E2ADDE@brightstorm.co.uk>

Take em to byteback
http://www.byteback.it/index.php?page=home

We?ve got rid of old cases, dead macs and all our old windows machines (good riddance)

> On 27 Mar 2015, at 13:24, David Gilroy | Conscious Solutions <dgilroy at conscious.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> All disks cleaner.  Too old to do anything else pretty much.
> 
> What's the limit at the local tip?  Is six too many for "home use"?
> 
> D.
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

....................................
Mike Karth?user
Director, Brightstorm Ltd.

1, Brewery Court
North Street
Bristol
BS3 1JS

mikek at brightstorm.co.uk <mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk>
www.brightstorm.co.uk <http://www.brightstorm.co.uk/>
+44(0) 7939252144
....................................


From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Fri Mar 27 14:09:04 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:09:04 +0000
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
In-Reply-To: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
References: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPK0ichxH7_uugya7eA55TqVGA7_HC0abRfTUGadxmFe8cSAYg@mail.gmail.com>

I took 2 earlier in the week to one of the computer shops on
Gloucester Road, and they took them for parts.

On 27 March 2015 at 13:24, David Gilroy | Conscious Solutions
<dgilroy at conscious.co.uk> wrote:
> All disks cleaner.  Too old to do anything else pretty much.
>
> What's the limit at the local tip?  Is six too many for "home use"?
>
> D.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk


From harvey.west at btinternet.com  Fri Mar 27 14:16:43 2015
From: harvey.west at btinternet.com (Harvey West)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:16:43 +0000
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
In-Reply-To: <CAJwc0ZP=Kv1xD9T7f_3ev5vRNqet1hstmtYxbpfi3YSzacOk-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
 <CAJwc0ZP=Kv1xD9T7f_3ev5vRNqet1hstmtYxbpfi3YSzacOk-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1427465803.21094.YahooMailNeo@web172606.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

I normally use these as a starter.?

freecycle

gumtree
ebay

Buyers been known to turn up with cash in hand.



________________________________
 From: Jon Free <jon.free at wastesource.co.uk>
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk 
Sent: Friday, 27 March 2015, 13:41
Subject: Re: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
 

I wouldn't have thought they'd turn you away with that much. As long as you
go in a car!

Out of interest, how many people on Underscore regularly need PC's and
various other electronics removed from their site. Be that weekly, monthly,
or yearly? And has anyone tried to use a company to do this rather than
take it to the tip themselves, and how have said companies faired!

On 27 March 2015 at 13:24, David Gilroy|Conscious Solutions <
dgilroy at conscious.co.uk> wrote:

> All disks cleaner.? Too old to do anything else pretty much.
>
> What's the limit at the local tip?? Is six too many for "home use"?
>
> D.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 

Jon Free

WasteSource

07931 925257 | 0117 205 0259

wastesource.co.uk <http://www.wastesource.co.uk/?footer=jf> | @wastesource
<https://twitter.com/#!/WasteSource>

Loft 3, Tobacco Factory, Bristol, BS3 1TF

Information in this email is confidential and intended for the sole use of
the addressee/s. Access, copying, disclosure or re-use, in any way, of the
contents of this email by anyone other than the addressee/s is
unauthorised. I accept no legal responsibility for the content of the
message. If you have received this email in error, please return it to the
sender.

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From adamairmailed at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 27 14:19:49 2015
From: adamairmailed at yahoo.com (adam armfield)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:19:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
In-Reply-To: <CAPK0ichxH7_uugya7eA55TqVGA7_HC0abRfTUGadxmFe8cSAYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPK0ichxH7_uugya7eA55TqVGA7_HC0abRfTUGadxmFe8cSAYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <540057475.3563606.1427465989482.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

this is depressing viewing - ghanas electronic waste dump The Sakawa Boys | VICE | United Kingdom

| ? |
| ? |  | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
| The Sakawa Boys | VICE | United KingdomGhana?s enterprising young cybercriminals use traditional Juju magic to supercharge their email scams, and a subculture is born. Now Ghana?s in the grips of Sakawam... |
|  |
| View on www.vice.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
| ? |

?All the best

Adam 


     On Friday, 27 March 2015, 14:09, Adam Retter <adam.retter at googlemail.com> wrote:
   

 I took 2 earlier in the week to one of the computer shops on
Gloucester Road, and they took them for parts.

On 27 March 2015 at 13:24, David Gilroy | Conscious Solutions
<dgilroy at conscious.co.uk> wrote:
> All disks cleaner.? Too old to do anything else pretty much.
>
> What's the limit at the local tip?? Is six too many for "home use"?
>
> D.
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk

-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


  

From martin at spodnet.net  Fri Mar 27 14:32:05 2015
From: martin at spodnet.net (Martin Wheatley)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:32:05 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551569E5.6040109@spodnet.net>

Dev all happens on local machines, Test AWS instance shared for all 
clients, UAT happens on Test, and live.

I don't line item costing the dev/test setups that's built into my 
existing dev costs.

On 27/03/2015 12:18, Damian Webber wrote:
> Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I
> thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their
> client's development environments
>
> Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.
>
> Example:
> A new web site for a client requires 4 environments,
> DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)
>
> Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
> * Load balancer
> * Terminal Services Server
> * Two Web Servers (presentation)
> * Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
> * Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
> * Active Directory Server
> * Antivirus Server
>
>
> My non-production environments have
> * Load Balancer
> * Terminal Services Server
> * 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
> * 2 app servers (UAT:2)
> * 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
> * Active Directory Server
>
>
> That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the customer
>
> Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money
> Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances
> for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months and
> then get spun up again when changes are required
>
> So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also
> charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')
>
> I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the
> development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more than
> wages)
>
>
>
>
> *Damian Webber*
> Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
> @damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252
>



From damian.webber at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 14:32:50 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:32:50 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <CANGB9CC15Wpp_S3wsXgQtz-NnR9mkLUxq5peUND1cvOZknwAtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANGB9CC15Wpp_S3wsXgQtz-NnR9mkLUxq5peUND1cvOZknwAtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANzT8VHfB+q0aOzVoyoQ7UXKT-fkysrM58T4agqPYz_3NvvPdA@mail.gmail.com>

smaller = smaller than my firm (Sopra Steria)

I guess a cloud hosted server = 1 developer day per month

The hosting costs for a recent (failed) bid were 10x our competitors..... I
thought that competitors might pick up the operational cost of non-prod
environments themselves

D

*Damian Webber*
Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
@damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252

On 27 March 2015 at 13:29, Nic Rodgers <nicrodgers at gmail.com> wrote:

> First thing I'd say is that the 10 server production environment you
> describe doesn't really align with what I'd class as a "smaller
> operation".  I'd say that's more 'mid level' (ok, that's vague too).
>
> Having said that, if you're looking at that kind of set up, in the Drupal
> world you'd be likely to get Acquia to host it. With that would come dev,
> test (and optionally UAT, load test, etc) slots. All of which would be
> covered by the same hosting agreement, which I would get the client to pay
> for directly. Advantages of this (for the client) are a single supplier and
> support & maintenance (with equal SLA) across all environments. Advantages
> for the consultant - no server management issues, and doesn't affect cash
> flow.  Yes, you may be able to shave a few ???s off the hosting by slimming
> your pre-production environments, but hosting is cheaper than development,
> so you more than make up for it by the time and cost savings from
> identifying and fixing environment-related issues before they get to
> production.
>
> Nic
>
> On 27 March 2015 at 12:18, Damian Webber <damian.webber at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I
> > thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their
> > client's development environments
> >
> > Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.
> >
> > Example:
> > A new web site for a client requires 4 environments,
> > DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)
> >
> > Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
> > * Load balancer
> > * Terminal Services Server
> > * Two Web Servers (presentation)
> > * Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
> > * Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
> > * Active Directory Server
> > * Antivirus Server
> >
> >
> > My non-production environments have
> > * Load Balancer
> > * Terminal Services Server
> > * 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
> > * 2 app servers (UAT:2)
> > * 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
> > * Active Directory Server
> >
> >
> > That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the
> customer
> >
> > Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money
> > Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances
> > for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months
> and
> > then get spun up again when changes are required
> >
> > So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also
> > charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')
> >
> > I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the
> > development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more
> than
> > wages)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Damian Webber*
> > Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
> > @damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From damian.webber at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 14:38:49 2015
From: damian.webber at gmail.com (Damian Webber)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:38:49 +0000
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <551569E5.6040109@spodnet.net>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <551569E5.6040109@spodnet.net>
Message-ID: <CANzT8VHJxNjBzb_buED3pRY7L8ThXj2yEatHYwwUzn+OE4rVrQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's a much more low cost model. Our way as akin to asking clients to pay
for developer laptops as part of the contract - although I did do that once
for one of my old clients ;-)



*Damian Webber*
Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
@damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252

On 27 March 2015 at 14:32, Martin Wheatley <martin at spodnet.net> wrote:

> Dev all happens on local machines, Test AWS instance shared for all
> clients, UAT happens on Test, and live.
>
> I don't line item costing the dev/test setups that's built into my
> existing dev costs.
>
> On 27/03/2015 12:18, Damian Webber wrote:
>
>> Ok peeps - I'm at loggerheads with some of my colleagues at work so I
>> thought I'd get some insight into how smaller operations manage their
>> client's development environments
>>
>> Our 'strategy' is to cloud host and charge all environments to customers.
>>
>> Example:
>> A new web site for a client requires 4 environments,
>> DEV,TEST,UAT,PRODUCTION (where UAT is a mirror of production)
>>
>> Let's say I need 10 servers for my production environment
>> * Load balancer
>> * Terminal Services Server
>> * Two Web Servers (presentation)
>> * Two App Servers (search, data processing, etc)
>> * Two Database servers (clustered for resilience)
>> * Active Directory Server
>> * Antivirus Server
>>
>>
>> My non-production environments have
>> * Load Balancer
>> * Terminal Services Server
>> * 4 web servers (DEV:1, TEST:1, UAT:2)
>> * 2 app servers (UAT:2)
>> * 1 db server (Shared for DEV,TEST,UAT)
>> * Active Directory Server
>>
>>
>> That's ten non-production servers cloud hosted and charged to the customer
>>
>> Personally, I don't think this offers great value for money
>> Previously, I've run a number of 'office datacentre' VM server instances
>> for client development which might get used fairly solidly for 6 months
>> and
>> then get spun up again when changes are required
>>
>> So, do you charge ALL development hosting costs to the customer? (we also
>> charge operational and service management on top of the 'kit')
>>
>> I'm curious to see what you all consider the pitfalls of providing the
>> development environment as part of the service (ie. day rates pay more
>> than
>> wages)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Damian Webber*
>> Solutions Architect - Web, CMS, ECM, UX
>> @damianwebber <http://twitter.com/damianwebber> | 07590 807 252
>>
>>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From owen at supercake.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 14:55:45 2015
From: owen at supercake.co.uk (Owen Curtis-Quick)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:55:45 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B95785B9-6C85-42DA-A426-CBF00485211D@supercake.co.uk>

A shadowy figure visited me, I then made the wrong decision.



On 26 Mar 2015, at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi scorers,
> 
> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can get
> into it.
> 
> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
> 
> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to build
> HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon company
> doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This gave
> me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
> beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
> better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role
> as a senior developer.
> 
> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
> little you know!
> 
> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all the
> routes in my article.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Oli Ward
> 
> w: developme.training
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From peter at sparkdata.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 15:03:03 2015
From: peter at sparkdata.co.uk (Peter Marshall)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 15:03:03 +0000
Subject: [_] Where can I dump 6x dead PCs?
In-Reply-To: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
References: <551559FD.209@conscious.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4a2f27061bf04257ae4f8ed721a2b177@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>

There's some recycling company called Prism Industries based in Hungerford that have me on their quarterly call back list - they take away pretty much any IT scrap I have inc desktops - and give me a proper printed out WEEE disposal chit for it as well.


Peter Marshall

0117 915 9673


Quay Side, 40-58 Hotwell Road,
Bristol, BS8 4UQ
T: 0117 907 9921
W: www.sparkdata.co.uk





From paddy at wincstudio.co.uk  Fri Mar 27 16:46:49 2015
From: paddy at wincstudio.co.uk (Paddy Winsley)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 16:46:49 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F34FED41-A150-4218-8EFC-60EF557430C0@wincstudio.co.uk>

I studied Graphic Design at college and university. Got my first job as a designer at an agency in Brighton who predominantly worked in print. There was another designer there who could set up WordPress installs and hack at them (to some extent). 

We had a lot more website enquiries which we used to outsource the build to a local freelancer. When I realised how much they were paying him I thought that it was something I would like to learn. 

At first I didn?t have an interest in web at all. I even missed my introduction to Dreamweaver at university and didn?t think anything of it. Was all about print, nice stock, printing methods and finishes. 

Sat myself down and got to grips with HTML/CSS, then my colleague showed me the ropes with WordPress, Took a day or two of my month to expand on my skills (whilst getting paid). Fast forward a year, I was the first point of call for anything web based. 

It was a tough ride as my senior designer (just so happens to be my best mate) was quite the perfectionist and a great designer/illustrator, but didn?t have a clue when it came to web. He used to create these wonderful designs that didn?t work at all from a development/UX perspective. If I questioned it he would say ?well why can?t you do it? surely it is possible!?. I would bust his balls down the pub and say that he was an arse and needs to listen to me which didn?t go down too well. But I used to make his designs (where possible) pixel perfect, and being from a design background, I think that?s quite a good trait to have. 

I ploughed through asking questions, getting things wrong/right and I feel now I?m pretty efficient with best practices and do quite a bit of WP work. Would consider myself as a pretty competent all rounder, but I couldn?t decide if I prefer print or development. 

?
Thanks and regards
Paddy Winsley
Creative Director
?????????????????????????
www.wincstudio.co.uk




IMPORTANT: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain private and confidential information or material which may be privileged. If this message has come to you in error you must delete it immediately and should not copy it or show it to any other person.

> On 26 Mar 2015, at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi scorers,
> 
> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can get
> into it.
> 
> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
> 
> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to build
> HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon company
> doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This gave
> me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
> beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
> better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role
> as a senior developer.
> 
> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
> little you know!
> 
> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all the
> routes in my article.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Oli Ward
> 
> w: developme.training
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From inkysplat at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 23:28:27 2015
From: inkysplat at gmail.com (Adam Nicholls)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 23:28:27 +0000
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <F34FED41-A150-4218-8EFC-60EF557430C0@wincstudio.co.uk>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <F34FED41-A150-4218-8EFC-60EF557430C0@wincstudio.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA3hv4WvH+ADPDLus3VnmwJGkQ2bVFLdXHpHGoo36-cROHfo5g@mail.gmail.com>

Mine started with Windows ME. I hated it and all things Windows 9x. Damned
Windoze.

I started exploring Linux and various other Unix OS's in the early 2000's.
Played with virtually every Linux Distro under the sun, Mandrake/Mandriva,
Suse, Fedora, Mint, Gentoo, Slackware, Debian, Knoppix and of course Ubuntu
and even FreeBSD. Alongside that I played with the various Window Managers
and Desktop Environment. I became comfortable with a text editor, Joe/Pico,
Nano and Vi. Compiled my own kernels and and know fdisk like the back of my
hand. I was well into the Free Software movement. Still winds me up
developers who point to GIthub and think that's Open-Source. I'm more into
the whole ethic, Richard Stallman style, free as in speech, free as in
beer. Peace and love and all that. It should be called GNU/Linux, surely? I
know all about the Cathedral and Bazaar and listened to LUGRadio
religiously, I have a t-shirt somewhere.

Anyhoo... I was in school at the time, so I started showing off to friends
setting up IRC servers on my computer, and setting up Telnet access, and
streaming really low bitrate Shoutcast/Icecast streams. I soon started
playing with Apache and hooked my friends up with a ~/public_html
directory, FTP access and Telnet. Looking back I had the makings of a mini
hosting business running on my dial-up/512kbps internet and no-ip.org.
Pretty sure the 64MB of Memory and 600Mhz the family computer had back then
wasn't ready for the commercial task though. I'm probably making a few of
you feel old now, right?

It was also at this time I was writing really bad HTML4 and ran some silly
websites on Geocities and Angelfire/Lycos (are they still going?). I soon
started to take my HTML knowledge and piecing it together with PHP on my
home computer and started combining it with the odd select statement. I
also started taking note of the W3C, and started aiming for HTML 4.01
Transitional soon everything I wrote was compliant. Do people even use W3C
compliance anymore?

One of the first PHP apps I built back in 2003 was a Web Interface to my
music collection. It recursively scanned my vast music collection sourced
from Kazaa and Morpheus (I didn't get pocket money, so yes I "stole"
music!) all my music was catalogued and indexed using MusicBrainz so all
the ID3 tags were impeccable. I was anal about that. I then stored the ID3
contents in an MySQL database knocked up some HTML tables using PHP and
generated an M3U file for each file/album pointing to my IP address and
allowed house mates at Uni to stream my collection over our network via
Windows Media Player/Winamp.

On the academic side of things; I went to college and did BTEC in IT
Practitioners. Learnt some stuff about Waterfall, Pascal, and Networking.
Liked the Networking stuff and found it relevant with my Linux knowledge.
Nothing else on the course sticks out or is of major interest. Progressed
to University doing Computer Science & Software Engineering. Lost interest
mid-way through 2nd year, so changed Uni and course to just plain Computer
Science. Muddled my way through my 2nd year on a new course, got to final
year and realised I wasn't really interested in the academics, such as
Artificial Intelligence which seemed to dominate my final year. Thought I'd
try my luck doing PHP as job, before I had even started writing my
dissertation!

Got my first PHP job through the Job Centre website back in 2010. It was
for an eCommerce Company based on an Industrial Estate in Chepstow. There
was only me and my boss so I had pretty much 1-on-1 experience and
training. I built an entirely bespoke PHP based Webshop that hooked into a
legacy PHP based back office system that was used for fullfilment and
catalogue management. Whole thing was powered by an XMLRPC like interface,
and was bloody slow. Learned loads about SimpleXML, Regular Expression, SQL
Injection, XSS, Data Sanitization and Validation. I also did things I still
don't understand with the Amazon Marketplace SOAP API.

As Carl said earlier:
> Move fast, and don't get too comfortable is a mantra that's served me
well - and continues to do so.

I've moved a few times, but made good friends along the way... and added
another buzzword to the CV too.

I moved onto a start-up in 2011 did some Zend 1 and stuff with REST APIs,
met Nick Clarkson and Thomas Buckley Houston. I joined Hargreaves Lansdown.
Joined Nick again at Goram+Vincent. Left last year to come to London, joint
a start-up, then a tech agency, and now back at Goram+Vincent as Head of
Technology filling Nick's shoes but from a Shoreditch office.

Unlike the other stories here I was never into design or graphics or
WordPress or CMSs really. I've learnt to code from literally the
server-side forward. From Kernel compilation through to the Markup and all
the bits in-between. Means if you give me a PSD file and expect me to give
you a WordPress theme you've come to the wrong guy. Ask me to build a
server for "X", and a PHP based "thing" in a Framework I'm your man. Even
better if it needs something exotic like Mongo, Redis, ActiveMQ, Cassandra,
StatsD etc.

As someone said we're always learning and discovering new things. Given my
strong backend experience, I'll probably be building on that more over the
next few years getting into DevOps things and hoping to get comfortable
with Ruby and Rails.

Thanks
Adam.



On 27 March 2015 at 16:46, Paddy Winsley <paddy at wincstudio.co.uk> wrote:

> I studied Graphic Design at college and university. Got my first job as a
> designer at an agency in Brighton who predominantly worked in print. There
> was another designer there who could set up WordPress installs and hack at
> them (to some extent).
>
> We had a lot more website enquiries which we used to outsource the build
> to a local freelancer. When I realised how much they were paying him I
> thought that it was something I would like to learn.
>
> At first I didn?t have an interest in web at all. I even missed my
> introduction to Dreamweaver at university and didn?t think anything of it.
> Was all about print, nice stock, printing methods and finishes.
>
> Sat myself down and got to grips with HTML/CSS, then my colleague showed
> me the ropes with WordPress, Took a day or two of my month to expand on my
> skills (whilst getting paid). Fast forward a year, I was the first point of
> call for anything web based.
>
> It was a tough ride as my senior designer (just so happens to be my best
> mate) was quite the perfectionist and a great designer/illustrator, but
> didn?t have a clue when it came to web. He used to create these wonderful
> designs that didn?t work at all from a development/UX perspective. If I
> questioned it he would say ?well why can?t you do it? surely it is
> possible!?. I would bust his balls down the pub and say that he was an arse
> and needs to listen to me which didn?t go down too well. But I used to make
> his designs (where possible) pixel perfect, and being from a design
> background, I think that?s quite a good trait to have.
>
> I ploughed through asking questions, getting things wrong/right and I feel
> now I?m pretty efficient with best practices and do quite a bit of WP work.
> Would consider myself as a pretty competent all rounder, but I couldn?t
> decide if I prefer print or development.
>
> ?
> Thanks and regards
> Paddy Winsley
> Creative Director
> ?????????????????????????
> www.wincstudio.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> IMPORTANT: This message is intended for the addressee only and may contain
> private and confidential information or material which may be privileged.
> If this message has come to you in error you must delete it immediately and
> should not copy it or show it to any other person.
>
> > On 26 Mar 2015, at 14:49, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi scorers,
> >
> > I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can
> get
> > into it.
> >
> > I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> > would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
> >
> > For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to
> build
> > HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon
> company
> > doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This
> gave
> > me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
> > beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
> > better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a
> role
> > as a senior developer.
> >
> > In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
> > little you know!
> >
> > I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all
> the
> > routes in my article.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Oli Ward
> >
> > w: developme.training
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Adam Nicholls

From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Sat Mar 28 23:42:57 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 23:42:57 +0000
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
Message-ID: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>

Hi all,


We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our systems over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due to data protection issues academic clients want not only that the server is running on a UK datacenter but also that the company providing the could service is a UK company. Can anyone recommend any UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!



Kind Regards,

Erik Wallace

From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 08:15:20 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:15:20 +0200
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-tnE-P+yZSUBYsU-kb1k1VrP-RQPfBHrdELttyQH=+GLw@mail.gmail.com>

These guys are based in Farnborough:

https://catn.com/

On 29 March 2015 at 00:42, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our
> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our systems
> over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due to data
> protection issues academic clients want not only that the server is running
> on a UK datacenter but also that the company providing the could service is
> a UK company. Can anyone recommend any UK based equivalents of
> DigitalOcean? Many thanks!
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Erik Wallace
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From david at codepoets.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 08:56:11 2015
From: david at codepoets.co.uk (David Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:56:11 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>



Erik Wallace wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our systems over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due to data protection issues academic clients want not only that the server is running on a UK datacenter but also that the company providing the could service is a UK company. Can anyone recommend any UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!

Bytemark.

(e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )


David

--
David Goodwin
http://codepoets.co.uk



From adam.retter at googlemail.com  Sun Mar 29 09:43:15 2015
From: adam.retter at googlemail.com (Adam Retter)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 09:43:15 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPK0icjJ97WML5YegHd-nRh=T5nEu++MVT-WH6CZ0UwUP-2aZw@mail.gmail.com>

Fasthosts

On 29 March 2015 at 08:56, David Goodwin <david at codepoets.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Erik Wallace wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our
>> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our systems
>> over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due to data
>> protection issues academic clients want not only that the server is running
>> on a UK datacenter but also that the company providing the could service is
>> a UK company. Can anyone recommend any UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean?
>> Many thanks!
>
>
> Bytemark.
>
> (e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )
>
>
> David
>
> --
> David Goodwin
> http://codepoets.co.uk
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
Adam Retter

skype: adam.retter
tweet: adamretter
http://www.adamretter.org.uk


From oliver at watershed.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 10:31:06 2015
From: oliver at watershed.co.uk (Oliver Humpage)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 10:31:06 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <1D5C612F-F29D-43D3-920B-56F4060079DA@watershed.co.uk>

Melbourne in Manchester (we use them for colo, but they're good and you get to know their team personally).

http://www.melbourne.co.uk/services/managed-hosting/cloud-servers/

Oliver. 



From peter at sparkdata.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 11:38:19 2015
From: peter at sparkdata.co.uk (Peter Marshall)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 10:38:19 +0000
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <9d911d9e421e49339f9e5a0d96bc4285@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>

> Can anyone recommend any UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!

Dunno if Webfusion is there thing, but Spider Group are building cloud hosting facilities out of NGD in Newport and the ex-MOD bunkers in Wiltshire - James Cook would be the man to contact www.spidergroup.com





Peter Marshall

0117 915 9673


Quay Side, 40-58 Hotwell Road,
Bristol, BS8 4UQ
T: 0117 907 9921
W: www.sparkdata.co.uk





From dantagg at wildmanherring.com  Sun Mar 29 12:13:23 2015
From: dantagg at wildmanherring.com (Dan Tagg)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Assuming it is public money they are spending, I am not sure it is legal to
restrict a procurement to only UK companies and data centres. Most UK
procurement law and procedures are about the creation of a fair single
market across the EU. There are some abrogations for cultural and education
purchases.

Dan

On 29 March 2015 at 08:56, David Goodwin <david at codepoets.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
> Erik Wallace wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our
>> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our systems
>> over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due to data
>> protection issues academic clients want not only that the server is running
>> on a UK datacenter but also that the company providing the could service is
>> a UK company. Can anyone recommend any UK based equivalents of
>> DigitalOcean? Many thanks!
>>
>
> Bytemark.
>
> (e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )
>
>
> David
>
> --
> David Goodwin
> http://codepoets.co.uk
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 12:40:26 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:40:26 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

It's not an EU client ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Dan Tagg
Sent: 29 March 2015 12:13
To: underscore
Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers

Assuming it is public money they are spending, I am not sure it is legal to
restrict a procurement to only UK companies and data centres. Most UK
procurement law and procedures are about the creation of a fair single
market across the EU. There are some abrogations for cultural and education
purchases.

Dan

On 29 March 2015 at 08:56, David Goodwin <david at codepoets.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
> Erik Wallace wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our 
>> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our 
>> systems over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due 
>> to data protection issues academic clients want not only that the 
>> server is running on a UK datacenter but also that the company 
>> providing the could service is a UK company. Can anyone recommend any 
>> UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!
>>
>
> Bytemark.
>
> (e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )
>
>
> David
>
> --
> David Goodwin
> http://codepoets.co.uk
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/ 
> mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



--
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374
--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4315/9379 - Release Date: 03/25/15



From nigel.legg at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 13:23:41 2015
From: nigel.legg at gmail.com (Nigel Legg)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:23:41 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>

I think the point Dan was making is that public bodies are not allowed to
discriminate against businesses from other EU countries.  Having said that,
are there any cloud hosting providers that operate in Britain which are
owned by other EU countries?  Also if this is a Data Protection thing, and
avoidance of US NSA surveillance, then such a company, if it did exist,
would be ok - just not the big guys like AWS and Digital Ocean etc.

Cheers, Nigel
07914 740972


On 29 March 2015 at 12:40, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> It's not an EU client ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of
> Dan Tagg
> Sent: 29 March 2015 12:13
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers
>
> Assuming it is public money they are spending, I am not sure it is legal to
> restrict a procurement to only UK companies and data centres. Most UK
> procurement law and procedures are about the creation of a fair single
> market across the EU. There are some abrogations for cultural and education
> purchases.
>
> Dan
>
> On 29 March 2015 at 08:56, David Goodwin <david at codepoets.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Erik Wallace wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our
> >> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our
> >> systems over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due
> >> to data protection issues academic clients want not only that the
> >> server is running on a UK datacenter but also that the company
> >> providing the could service is a UK company. Can anyone recommend any
> >> UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!
> >>
> >
> > Bytemark.
> >
> > (e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> > --
> > David Goodwin
> > http://codepoets.co.uk
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
> London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4315/9379 - Release Date: 03/25/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From dantagg at wildmanherring.com  Sun Mar 29 13:38:34 2015
From: dantagg at wildmanherring.com (Dan Tagg)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:38:34 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZHCY4ZBm8Lc4Qtb_X26T8m0dmGVO2eUEuG_i5iQegHUn03hw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Nigel,

>From my experience you cannot specify in a procurement that the server must
be located within the UK as that is anti-competitive. You can specify it
must be located with the EU and if it is holding the private data of EU
citizens then there are rules about how and where that data can be exported
and process outside the EU.

If you are concerned about privacy then there are European countries where
it is taken a LOT more seriously and where it appears the surveilance state
is not as embeded into the network infrastructure like Germany so hosting
there could be a win-win.

Dan

On 29 March 2015 at 13:23, Nigel Legg <nigel.legg at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the point Dan was making is that public bodies are not allowed to
> discriminate against businesses from other EU countries.  Having said that,
> are there any cloud hosting providers that operate in Britain which are
> owned by other EU countries?  Also if this is a Data Protection thing, and
> avoidance of US NSA surveillance, then such a company, if it did exist,
> would be ok - just not the big guys like AWS and Digital Ocean etc.
>
> Cheers, Nigel
> 07914 740972
>
>
> On 29 March 2015 at 12:40, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > It's not an EU client ;)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > Dan Tagg
> > Sent: 29 March 2015 12:13
> > To: underscore
> > Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers
> >
> > Assuming it is public money they are spending, I am not sure it is legal
> to
> > restrict a procurement to only UK companies and data centres. Most UK
> > procurement law and procedures are about the creation of a fair single
> > market across the EU. There are some abrogations for cultural and
> education
> > purchases.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On 29 March 2015 at 08:56, David Goodwin <david at codepoets.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Erik Wallace wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our
> > >> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our
> > >> systems over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due
> > >> to data protection issues academic clients want not only that the
> > >> server is running on a UK datacenter but also that the company
> > >> providing the could service is a UK company. Can anyone recommend any
> > >> UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!
> > >>
> > >
> > > Bytemark.
> > >
> > > (e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )
> > >
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Goodwin
> > > http://codepoets.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/
> > > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
> > London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4315/9379 - Release Date: 03/25/15
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374

From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 13:52:16 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:52:16 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAKX+aL2ZEdNMuhwVVV2/T1oBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

I know the full story - the end client isn't in Europe and won't accept
anything US based/owned.

Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Nigel Legg
Sent: 29 March 2015 13:24
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers

I think the point Dan was making is that public bodies are not allowed to
discriminate against businesses from other EU countries.  Having said that,
are there any cloud hosting providers that operate in Britain which are
owned by other EU countries?  Also if this is a Data Protection thing, and
avoidance of US NSA surveillance, then such a company, if it did exist,
would be ok - just not the big guys like AWS and Digital Ocean etc.

Cheers, Nigel
07914 740972


On 29 March 2015 at 12:40, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> It's not an EU client ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> Behalf Of Dan Tagg
> Sent: 29 March 2015 12:13
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers
>
> Assuming it is public money they are spending, I am not sure it is 
> legal to restrict a procurement to only UK companies and data centres. 
> Most UK procurement law and procedures are about the creation of a 
> fair single market across the EU. There are some abrogations for 
> cultural and education purchases.
>
> Dan
>
> On 29 March 2015 at 08:56, David Goodwin <david at codepoets.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Erik Wallace wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >> We are currently dealing with academic institutions and most of our 
> >> systems are on Webfusion servers, but we'd like to move some of our 
> >> systems over to a cloud provider such as DigitalOcean. However, due 
> >> to data protection issues academic clients want not only that the 
> >> server is running on a UK datacenter but also that the company 
> >> providing the could service is a UK company. Can anyone recommend 
> >> any UK based equivalents of DigitalOcean? Many thanks!
> >>
> >
> > Bytemark.
> >
> > (e.g. https://www.bytemark.co.uk/hosting/bigv/ )
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> > --
> > David Goodwin
> > http://codepoets.co.uk
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/ 
> > mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern 
> Street, London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4315/9379 - Release Date: 
> 03/25/15
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4315/9379 - Release Date: 03/25/15



From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Sun Mar 29 15:02:51 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:02:51 +0000
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <CAPZHCY4ZBm8Lc4Qtb_X26T8m0dmGVO2eUEuG_i5iQegHUn03hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAPZHCY4ZBm8Lc4Qtb_X26T8m0dmGVO2eUEuG_i5iQegHUn03hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1427637772493.4050@lewdewe.com>

Hi Dan,

Just to clarify, are you saying that Germany has minimal snooping and interference by global authorities? That is interesting and I wouldn't have expected that - Iceland or Scandinavia perhaps but not Germany.


Kind Regards,
Erik Wallace

________________________________________
From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Dan Tagg <dantagg at wildmanherring.com>

If you are concerned about privacy then there are European countries where
it is taken a LOT more seriously and where it appears the surveilance state
is not as embeded into the network infrastructure like Germany so hosting
there could be a win-win.

Dan

From oliward at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 21:12:20 2015
From: oliward at gmail.com (Oli Ward)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 21:12:20 +0100
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
Message-ID: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, got to say I'm amazed by the response. Really interesting.

And, as I suspected, no real commonality amongst how people got here today,
other than "dunno, thought it was interesting so learnt some more stuff and
got a sort of related job".

I'm wondering, therefore, what people think about the possibility of there
being a formally recognised route to being a developer.

I noticed no one mentioned "comp. sci" at all. Seems some of you have
qualifications in technical fields (e.g. engineering, science), design or
have come from other IT disciplines (support, testers, hackers).

Do you think its possible for a degree to teach (web) development?

Two of the challenges I can think of is 1) the field might be too broad and
makes any course too full of general concepts, and not specific enough to
actually be able to build/fix anything, and 2) web is too fast moving for a
course to stay relevant for long. Especially if it takes 3 or 4 years from
design to someone graduating.

The other thing I think might be the case is that to be a good developer,
and stay a good developer, you have to be very self-sufficient, able to
solve your own problems, and teach yourself new skills.

I'm wondering if, as we all seem to self-starters, if being a developer
self-selects for these type of people...

Oli Ward

w: developme.training

From matt at quernus.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 22:07:16 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:07:16 +0100
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18CFB73E-9797-42D9-AF1C-2E852371AF88@quernus.co.uk>


> On 29 Mar 2015, at 21:12, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I noticed no one mentioned "comp. sci" at all. Seems some of you have
> qualifications in technical fields (e.g. engineering, science), design or
> have come from other IT disciplines (support, testers, hackers).


I came via Comp Sci?

So I did Maths, Physics, CDT, German at A-Level and applied to go Mechanical Engineering at University. Got a place at Bristol and deferred for a year. I went to the US and worked as tea-boy basically in an office over there. I?ve always ?been interested in computers? and about that time (1995) the internet saw kinda taking off. I?d played around with BBSs before then in the UK with 2400 baud modems and the likes.

I signed up with a small ISP in the city I was in (Albany, NY) and downloaded Trumpet Winsock via Hyperterminal on Windows 3.1, Eudora and Netscape Navigator and started messing about. I ordered a bike from a company over in California that had started selling bikes online. This was before SSL existed? but criminals hadn?t been invented then either.

The ISP moved offices and happened to move directly opposite when I was living and so I wonder over to say Hi and ask if they?d waive my $30/month internet connection if I did some tech support for them. They were using a mix of Sun SS20s running SunOS 4, i386s running BSDi, and racks full of USRobotics 56K modems connected to Livingston Postmaster 3s. 

From them I started to learn about Unix, installed FreeBSD (this was back when Linux would fall over if you even looked at it). I because ?the computer guy? at work, and ended up supporting a Netware-based accounting system (Great Plains). The company at the time was spending $20K a month on ?email? from Sprintmail and MCIMail. I was convinced we could do it cheaper in-house. We bought a Cisco 2501 router, installed a 56K leased X.25 line and set up our own hybrid X.25/IP mail system. Cost about $5K / month. And still worked for road warriors from New York to Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk.

By the time it came to coming back to the UK and starting uni, I?d decided I didn?t want to do Mech Eng. anymore and after 6 months transferred to Comp Sci. The fact I could already compile stuff with gcc, and write Makefiles certainly helped. I did a brief stint at HP as a Java developer as a sandwich year, but big company culture and I didn?t fit so well, and I left and came back to Uni to finish my degree.

4 years of Uni, coming out with a MEng (Hons). I?d learnt C and Java. I ended up meeting a friend in a lift and we started what went on to become Netsight. We were originally a hosting and domain name reseller. We then realised we were going to be squeezed out of that market by the big player with the volume. So started to get into web development. I?d had some experience with PHP/FI and mSQL, but was looking for something better. I?d heard about something just released called Zope, and so started playing with that. That gave us what would now be called a NoSQL database, tempting system, through-the-web development, versioning etc. Also Python.. which I quickly learnt and fell in love with.

We then started using Plone, a CMS on top of Zope around 2003 and soon that became our staple work. Over then next 11 years I travelled all over the globe due to the fantastic Open Source community attending development sprints, conferences, speaking, organising conferences, 5 years serving on the Plone Foundation board. I am still a visiting fellow of the University of Bristol and go back at least once a year to lecture to the students about my experiences. 

After 15 years of Netsight, for personal reasons (stress of ill son mainly), I left to do something different. And now work remotely for a global team building a health, nutrition and fitness tracking system called enquos. It is all still built in Python, but uses Pyramid (the spiritual successor to Zope), Cassandra and Elasticsearch. However I?m involved at the moment in the iOS side of things, so starting to get into a whole new world of Cocoa, ObjC and Swift. That said, I?ve been writing C code this week, which is probably first C I?ve written in anger in about 15 years.

I?ve also just signed up to be a STEM Ambassador and just had my DBS check certificate through, so will be going to local schools and enthusing kids about science, technology, engineering and maths.

-Matt

? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From matt at quernus.co.uk  Sun Mar 29 22:27:44 2015
From: matt at quernus.co.uk (Matt Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:27:44 +0100
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47942B01-EDB6-46A0-8EA3-ED7898737770@quernus.co.uk>


> On 29 Mar 2015, at 21:12, Oli Ward <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Do you think its possible for a degree to teach (web) development?
> 
> Two of the challenges I can think of is 1) the field might be too broad and
> makes any course too full of general concepts, and not specific enough to
> actually be able to build/fix anything, and 2) web is too fast moving for a
> course to stay relevant for long. Especially if it takes 3 or 4 years from
> design to someone graduating.

And to answer your question? yes. I don?t think a Comp Sci degree makes you a good web developer, or that you need one to become a web developer. But over the years I?ve certainly noticed certain skills/traits in developers who have done a Comp Sci degree. Mostly around the understanding of data structures, algorithms, complexity, optimisation etc. I?m not saying you need a degree to understand or learn those topics, but they are something that you certainly get from a Comp Sci degree?. well? at least one from a University that actually teaches Computer Science? and not one that teaches ?How to drive Microsoft Windows? and calls it Computer Science.

Now, again, if you are just going to hack a bit of Wordpress, then that might not have any relevance to you, but if you are doing some backend coding for a system that performance or security is important then having an automatic feel for what data structures, etc you are going to use (or what the underlying abstraction layer you might be using is going to do) is certainly helpful.

Actually, Ive just re-read your question and realised I?ve answered the inverse question? oh well.

When I graduated in 2000, I?d been taught about networks, I?d been taught C and Java, I?d been taught about computer security. I?d been taught about databases. But something I thought was missing at the time was there was no module on ?How does all that get put together to build Amazon??. I think some things have changed since then and there are a bit more practical bits. But I?d say that overall you can still teach the fundamental concepts without getting too specialist in the particular technology-du-jour.

-Matt


? 
Matt Hamilton
Quernus
matt at quernus.co.uk
+44 117 325 3025
49b Easton Business Centre
Felix Road, Easton
Bristol, BS5 0HE

Quernus Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 09076246


From dantagg at wildmanherring.com  Sun Mar 29 22:37:27 2015
From: dantagg at wildmanherring.com (Dan Tagg)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:37:27 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <1427637772493.4050@lewdewe.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZHCY4ZBm8Lc4Qtb_X26T8m0dmGVO2eUEuG_i5iQegHUn03hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427637772493.4050@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZHCY5k3mrby7ttTg=yNdq59yUSeXoxN4QATLnvRJhWPNJ0MA@mail.gmail.com>

In the last 80-odd years Germany has had two repressive regimes that spied
on their citizens and did very bad things. There is a much stronger
appetite for controlling the state's access to people's secret information.
Germany has a constitution that limits the power of the federal government,
and the data it is allowed to collect on its citizens, it also passed the
first personal data protection law in the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/09/berlins-digital-exiles-tech-activists-escape-nsa

There is also the Chaos Computer Club http://www.ccc.de/en/

the centre of German digital culture, hacker culture, hackitivism, and the
> intersection of any discussion of democratic and digital rights. It holds
> an annual congress which started in Berlin in 1990 and is attended by more
> than 10,000 people. See Guardian article above.
>

In 2008 they lifted the German home office minister's finger prints from a
glass and published them allowing anyone to use his fingerprint in
biometric devices.

The German secret service gets up to lots of stuff I'm sure, but they don't
seem to have quite the free hand they do here and in the US.

D

On 29 March 2015 at 15:02, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Just to clarify, are you saying that Germany has minimal snooping and
> interference by global authorities? That is interesting and I wouldn't have
> expected that - Iceland or Scandinavia perhaps but not Germany.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Erik Wallace
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Dan
> Tagg <dantagg at wildmanherring.com>
>
> If you are concerned about privacy then there are European countries where
> it is taken a LOT more seriously and where it appears the surveilance state
> is not as embeded into the network infrastructure like Germany so hosting
> there could be a win-win.
>
> Dan
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



-- 
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374

From daniel.hilton at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 22:52:40 2015
From: daniel.hilton at gmail.com (Dan Hilton)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:52:40 +0100
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <47942B01-EDB6-46A0-8EA3-ED7898737770@quernus.co.uk>
References: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <47942B01-EDB6-46A0-8EA3-ED7898737770@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4C6DF913A5464EBC95D42E2A679F0850@gmail.com>

Bored one lunchtime I wandered into the computer lab at school (aged 15?) to find some guys I knew from Maths playing games on the internet and building webpages about ships (yeah I know, crazy times)

So, bored as I was I learnt HTML to build a frames based website for my school house, with some funky bits in DHTML (Js for all you under 30). From there I started buying cheap computer books (there used to be a shop at the bottom of Taunton high street - it was a small chain I believe from Exeter). Did an AVCE in ICT (at that time an office jockey qualification, that included touchtyping tests, rebooting a windows 3.1 computer to connect to a windows 2000 server) then thought I?d do Computer Science at University because hey that?s what web developers did right? Found out that actually Comp. Sci at Swansea where I went was very theoretical (which I found NP hard ) and then ended up doing a year working in the student union then another 7 months working in the Welsh assembly in Cardiff.

At which point my googling for jobs found a job in Bath, which when I googled the company, led me to Underscore. I didn?t get the first job (thank $deity with hindsight) but did get the second job with TeamRubber who I successfully convinced (or not) that I knew CSS and wasn?t about to break out a tonne of tables to create webpages and skin Zope / Plone. Went to another agency, did more backend work, went to a payment service provider, did more backend work and learnt more stuff, went back to another agency for a bit then a book publisher then went freelance / contracting. Never looked back.

The joy I found back in those computer labs days was the fact that I could view the source of any website and work out how they did something; the same with open source. I can learn from the code and bumble around understanding how the program executes, handles failure, handles load and secures it?s data in transit and at rest. What I think makes a web developer or a creative technologist (a wider job title that can encompass a lot of what web devs do) is the ability to learn and reverse engineer a practical digital solution to a problem. If I look at the tooling you have to understand and use to be a good front end developer these days (grunt, node, LESS, SASS, responsive design, ecmascript6, the js library explosion) I wonder how anyone gets started in that arena. Yet the basic trinity of HTML, CSS and JS still exists and powers the web.  

I do fear though that the decentralised nature of the web (web servers in a garage anyone?) has been lost a bit. And yet, some the really interesting stuff I see these days that the web (well the internet but let?s not get semantic) enables fills me with so much hope - the blockchain, WebRTC and the growth of online communities is amazing.  

Cheers,
Dan

P.S. - Do we need an underscore slack channel / community now? Is that what hipster web devs use these days rather than IRC?


From erik.wallace at lewdewe.com  Sun Mar 29 23:38:52 2015
From: erik.wallace at lewdewe.com (Erik Wallace)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:38:52 +0000
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <CAPZHCY5k3mrby7ttTg=yNdq59yUSeXoxN4QATLnvRJhWPNJ0MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZHCY4ZBm8Lc4Qtb_X26T8m0dmGVO2eUEuG_i5iQegHUn03hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427637772493.4050@lewdewe.com>,
 <CAPZHCY5k3mrby7ttTg=yNdq59yUSeXoxN4QATLnvRJhWPNJ0MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1427668733496.73738@lewdewe.com>

Hi Dan,

Thanks for that. Very interesting to know.


Kind Regards,
Erik Wallace

________________________________________
From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Dan Tagg <dantagg at wildmanherring.com>
Sent: 29 March 2015 22:37
To: underscore
Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers

In the last 80-odd years Germany has had two repressive regimes that spied
on their citizens and did very bad things. There is a much stronger
appetite for controlling the state's access to people's secret information.
Germany has a constitution that limits the power of the federal government,
and the data it is allowed to collect on its citizens, it also passed the
first personal data protection law in the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/09/berlins-digital-exiles-tech-activists-escape-nsa

There is also the Chaos Computer Club http://www.ccc.de/en/

the centre of German digital culture, hacker culture, hackitivism, and the
> intersection of any discussion of democratic and digital rights. It holds
> an annual congress which started in Berlin in 1990 and is attended by more
> than 10,000 people. See Guardian article above.
>

In 2008 they lifted the German home office minister's finger prints from a
glass and published them allowing anyone to use his fingerprint in
biometric devices.

The German secret service gets up to lots of stuff I'm sure, but they don't
seem to have quite the free hand they do here and in the US.

D

On 29 March 2015 at 15:02, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Just to clarify, are you saying that Germany has minimal snooping and
> interference by global authorities? That is interesting and I wouldn't have
> expected that - Iceland or Scandinavia perhaps but not Germany.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Erik Wallace
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Dan
> Tagg <dantagg at wildmanherring.com>
>
> If you are concerned about privacy then there are European countries where
> it is taken a LOT more seriously and where it appears the surveilance state
> is not as embeded into the network infrastructure like Germany so hosting
> there could be a win-win.
>
> Dan
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>



--
Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 08:04:34 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 09:04:34 +0200
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <1427668733496.73738@lewdewe.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPZHCY4ZBm8Lc4Qtb_X26T8m0dmGVO2eUEuG_i5iQegHUn03hw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427637772493.4050@lewdewe.com>
 <CAPZHCY5k3mrby7ttTg=yNdq59yUSeXoxN4QATLnvRJhWPNJ0MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427668733496.73738@lewdewe.com>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-uOwkEz7Dsw1QMr1eGU=Z8WSYgGcB1m8PCUU0uu2de-uA@mail.gmail.com>

I live in Berlin and can indeed confirm that, as a people, Germans are
really intolerant of state sponsored and commercial snooping.

If anyone needs snooper proof hosting then let me know and I can point you
in the right direction. :)

On 30 March 2015 at 00:38, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com> wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> Thanks for that. Very interesting to know.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Erik Wallace
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of Dan
> Tagg <dantagg at wildmanherring.com>
> Sent: 29 March 2015 22:37
> To: underscore
> Subject: Re: [_] UK cloud servers
>
> In the last 80-odd years Germany has had two repressive regimes that spied
> on their citizens and did very bad things. There is a much stronger
> appetite for controlling the state's access to people's secret information.
> Germany has a constitution that limits the power of the federal government,
> and the data it is allowed to collect on its citizens, it also passed the
> first personal data protection law in the world.
>
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/09/berlins-digital-exiles-tech-activists-escape-nsa
>
> There is also the Chaos Computer Club http://www.ccc.de/en/
>
> the centre of German digital culture, hacker culture, hackitivism, and the
> > intersection of any discussion of democratic and digital rights. It holds
> > an annual congress which started in Berlin in 1990 and is attended by
> more
> > than 10,000 people. See Guardian article above.
> >
>
> In 2008 they lifted the German home office minister's finger prints from a
> glass and published them allowing anyone to use his fingerprint in
> biometric devices.
>
> The German secret service gets up to lots of stuff I'm sure, but they don't
> seem to have quite the free hand they do here and in the US.
>
> D
>
> On 29 March 2015 at 15:02, Erik Wallace <erik.wallace at lewdewe.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Just to clarify, are you saying that Germany has minimal snooping and
> > interference by global authorities? That is interesting and I wouldn't
> have
> > expected that - Iceland or Scandinavia perhaps but not Germany.
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Erik Wallace
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Underscore <underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk> on behalf of
> Dan
> > Tagg <dantagg at wildmanherring.com>
> >
> > If you are concerned about privacy then there are European countries
> where
> > it is taken a LOT more seriously and where it appears the surveilance
> state
> > is not as embeded into the network infrastructure like Germany so hosting
> > there could be a win-win.
> >
> > Dan
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Wildman and Herring Limited, Registered Office: 52 Great Eastern Street,
> London, EC2A 3EP, Company no: 05766374
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From abrahamster at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 10:17:56 2015
From: abrahamster at gmail.com (Dave Abraham)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:17:56 +0100
Subject: [_] Freelance front end dev required at short notice
Message-ID: <CA+deSx_VbhFYs6y=yyN5nay+KYmpwvNbXxkTRTUPMkZukcB-Jg@mail.gmail.com>

I am after a front end developer that is familiar with Bootstrap, if you
have any experience of Umbraco then that would be a plus, but it is not
essential as I am after a PSD to HTML conversion - this is short notice
stuff so I need someone with immediate availability that can plonk their
bum in front of me at the Bath Road studios to take the brief and bang the
work out, it is a single page being added to an existing site but it is a
rather complicated one - I would imagine it is about two days tops..

Email me off list please guys, thanks!

Dave

From matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 11:41:00 2015
From: matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk (Matt Tomlinson)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:41:00 +0000
Subject: [_] WPLMS WordPress Theme
Message-ID: <D13ED8BC.14D72F%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>

Hi

Anyone here developing with the WPLMS WordPress e-learning theme?

If so, I could do with picking your brains. I?ve got a client who loves the
functionality, but wants to repurpose Notes & Discussions so it looks a bit
more like a threaded discussion board.

Thanks

Matt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Matt Tomlinson Digital Marketing
 
+44 (0) 7956 326656
matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk
www.matt-tomlinson.co.uk <http://www.matt-tomlinson.co.uk/>
 
1.5 Temple Studios, Temple Meads, Bristol, BS1 6QA, UK
 
This e-mail is from Matt Tomlinson Digital Marketing Ltd. It is confidential
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From dantagg at wildmanherring.com  Mon Mar 30 11:01:56 2015
From: dantagg at wildmanherring.com (Dan Tagg)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:01:56 +0100
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+DkpSftRsRLwnnHjHw_GEUWsYyeADbnK5YC1bXDaQLcF+3_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPZHCY7T7oGAzMxV+SFpbm0FQ-wATerU6KD9Tg+W8BrDywaN+A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I studied computer science at university on a post grad diploma after a
degree in natural science. Back then in the 80s there were not very many
computers and no open source outside academia so you kind of had to. To get
my first enjoyable job I had to reach myself oo-programming, Java and html
though. I really enjoyed it and would like to do a masters now.

Dan
On 26 Mar 2015 14:51, "Oli Ward" <oliward at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi scorers,
>
> I'm quite often asked be people who want to be developers how they can get
> into it.
>
> I've written an article about it and how I got started, but thought it
> would be interesting to see how other people got into the industry.
>
> For me, I was interested in graphics at school, then taught myself to build
> HTML web pages (badly) at Uni. After that I got a job at a cartoon company
> doing some Photoshop work and maintaining their site on the side. This gave
> me time to learn ASP VB (ergh) then PHP, and that was the start of a
> beautiful career! From there I did freelance PHP sites and started seeing
> better ways of working with frameworks and off-the-shelf CMSs, then a role
> as a senior developer.
>
> In summary, largely self-taught, and an un-ending process of finding how
> little you know!
>
> I'd love to hear other people's experiences to see if I've covered all the
> routes in my article.
>
> Cheers
>
> Oli Ward
>
> w: developme.training
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From shane at mcewan.id.au  Mon Mar 30 11:09:53 2015
From: shane at mcewan.id.au (Shane McEwan)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:09:53 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551920F1.403@mcewan.id.au>

On 29/03/15 13:23, Nigel Legg wrote:
> Having said that, are there any cloud hosting providers that operate
> in Britain which are owned by other EU countries?

Claranet? http://www.claranet.co.uk/about/who-we-are.html

Shane.


From rick.hurst at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 11:15:11 2015
From: rick.hurst at gmail.com (Rick Hurst)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:15:11 +0100
Subject: [_] How did you become a developer?
In-Reply-To: <47942B01-EDB6-46A0-8EA3-ED7898737770@quernus.co.uk>
References: <CAD+DkpTqqcTckiYtqQrjWi6d2Uuv2hRUMFaBBRB+pY+ui7iUZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <47942B01-EDB6-46A0-8EA3-ED7898737770@quernus.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGKubKKS3UUwVad1htEBMp=hNCJrA7Emio2ydGvYnxqF1vZ6gA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 10:27 PM, Matt Hamilton <matt at quernus.co.uk> wrote:

> And to answer your question? yes. I don?t think a Comp Sci degree makes you a good web developer, or that you need one to become a web developer. But over the years I?ve certainly noticed certain skills/traits in developers who have done a Comp Sci degree. Mostly around the understanding of data structures, algorithms, complexity, optimisation etc. I?m not saying you need a degree to understand or learn those topics, but they are something that you certainly get from a Comp Sci degree

I've noticed this too - i've worked with teams of developers who
mostly come from a comp sci background, and i've sometimes ignorantly
attributed their application of certain techniques and principles as
"over-complicating" things, only for the penny to drop a year or so
later when presented with a challenge and do some independent research
and start to understand why it was done that way. If I had the spare
time and money i'd love to do a comp sci degree or even masters. Maybe
I will one day...

-- 
Rick Hurst
http://www.rickhurst.co.uk


From needle at haystack.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 11:37:16 2015
From: needle at haystack.co.uk (Christian Wach)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:37:16 +0100
Subject: [_] WPLMS WordPress Theme
In-Reply-To: <D13ED8BC.14D72F%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
References: <D13ED8BC.14D72F%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
Message-ID: <55B1DCF2-446A-4BD1-95E1-11D6B9F1FF62@haystack.co.uk>


On 30 Mar 2015, at 11:41, Matt Tomlinson <matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk> wrote:

> Anyone here developing with the WPLMS WordPress e-learning theme?

I've had that dubious "pleasure".

> If so, I could do with picking your brains. I?ve got a client who loves the
> functionality, but wants to repurpose Notes & Discussions so it looks a bit
> more like a threaded discussion board.

Use bbPress instead?

Cheers,

Christian



From taholder at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 12:33:27 2015
From: taholder at gmail.com (Tom Holder)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 12:33:27 +0100
Subject: [_] UK cloud servers
In-Reply-To: <551920F1.403@mcewan.id.au>
References: <1427586178479.78242@lewdewe.com>
 <5517B01B.6070607@codepoets.co.uk>
 <CAPZHCY4La6R-QqPYPEG+sZii4eRtsyZGJcbxkdv6mbLi+bbgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAACiOA/ktRQdAluzBqdI83usBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <CADeX7vwOxh=fvw2awfQnRa_YwLQ9M9N72o+F13_SyUx0xj-22A@mail.gmail.com>
 <551920F1.403@mcewan.id.au>
Message-ID: <CAGobHETtPtQJwf-zH+kxi1=CNCe-WpwLFMapFiq8ZKGnULyxJg@mail.gmail.com>

Bloody hell, there's a blast from the past. Based on how long those guys
have been around, they're probably doing a good job. I used them in 1998
for something.

Tom

On 30 March 2015 at 11:09, Shane McEwan <shane at mcewan.id.au> wrote:

> On 29/03/15 13:23, Nigel Legg wrote:
> > Having said that, are there any cloud hosting providers that operate
> > in Britain which are owned by other EU countries?
>
> Claranet? http://www.claranet.co.uk/about/who-we-are.html
>
> Shane.
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 13:06:11 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 14:06:11 +0200
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
Message-ID: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying
for domain hosting twice.

Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can
just point some A records?

Thanks,

Andrew

From taholder at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 13:17:05 2015
From: taholder at gmail.com (Tom Holder)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:17:05 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGobHES+d+MmAOQ5J3CZ6jyq+hPm4T+4CCLy_dcWo9x-qB7-=A@mail.gmail.com>

Surely you can just cname www. (or something else) to wordpress.com ? I
can't see why they would need to manage the domain for that.

Some DNS servers (dnsmadeeasy for example) will support doing a 301
redirect as well. So using that, you could cname www. and 301 redirect the
root name to the cname.

Tom

Tom

On 30 March 2015 at 13:06, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
> wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
> domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
> rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying
> for domain hosting twice.
>
> Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can
> just point some A records?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From joe.leech at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 13:18:24 2015
From: joe.leech at gmail.com (Joe Leech)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:18:24 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+8arc1xE1ERKa84de71gLRC0c24Q4HmdeRxnCueLZGO4fP1sw@mail.gmail.com>

I use Media Temple, they are pretty solid. $20 a month for dedicated WP hosting
http://mdtm.pl/1oHh5bj

On 30 March 2015 at 13:06, Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
> wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
> domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
> rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying
> for domain hosting twice.
>
> Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can
> just point some A records?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



-- 
*****************************************************
@mrjoe http://mrjoe.uk

Drinking tea and making the internet a better place one website at a time


From andrew.holway at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 13:46:36 2015
From: andrew.holway at gmail.com (Andrew Holway)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 14:46:36 +0200
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAGobHES+d+MmAOQ5J3CZ6jyq+hPm4T+4CCLy_dcWo9x-qB7-=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGobHES+d+MmAOQ5J3CZ6jyq+hPm4T+4CCLy_dcWo9x-qB7-=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEiui-umXhpgdHjuCU-FC64JHn5ffoDTpr-McJC5-tizs8gd2g@mail.gmail.com>

> Surely you can just cname www. (or something else) to wordpress.com ? I
> can't see why they would need to manage the domain for that.
>

Nope. They are quite insistent that they should manage my DNS. To be honest
it makes sense they they should be able to manipulate the A records at will
so they can to DNS based load balancing (which is the sexiest type of load
balancing).

From alison at alisonswebsites.co.uk  Mon Mar 30 16:10:39 2015
From: alison at alisonswebsites.co.uk (Alison Girdlestone)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:10:39 +0000
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f695d14cb770476592771316884a8b5a@winhexbeeu29.win.mail>

Hi Andrew, I use 1&1 www.1and1.co.uk/hosting
They are as good and as bad as any other hosting company, but they are cheap ;)

Alison

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of Andrew Holway
Sent: 30 March 2015 13:06
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting

Hello,

I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying for domain hosting twice.

Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can just point some A records?

Thanks,

Andrew
--
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


From fiznool at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 16:54:11 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:54:11 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <f695d14cb770476592771316884a8b5a@winhexbeeu29.win.mail>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f695d14cb770476592771316884a8b5a@winhexbeeu29.win.mail>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9YTteaoGLaP1ShTFNb2k=RnWS5Hf_A-pvCzwQH7j8w9Tg@mail.gmail.com>

Just thought I'd chime in here. I haven't had a very good experience with
1and1. Only this weekend, I was trying to point a client's domain name
(managed by 1and1) to a DigitalOcean droplet. The client has 1and1's
website builder plan enabled for their domain, which caused weird results
when I updated the DNS nameservers - it seemed to sometimes resolve to the
website builder, sometimes to the DO droplet.

Granted, you are looking to do the opposite - point an external domain at
somewhere like 1and1, but based on my experiences, I'd avoid. They don't
seem particularly well setup for anything interfacing with their system.

On 30 March 2015 at 16:10, Alison Girdlestone <alison at alisonswebsites.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Andrew, I use 1&1 www.1and1.co.uk/hosting
> They are as good and as bad as any other hosting company, but they are
> cheap ;)
>
> Alison
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of Andrew Holway
> Sent: 30 March 2015 13:06
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
>
> Hello,
>
> I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
> wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
> domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
> rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying
> for domain hosting twice.
>
> Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can
> just point some A records?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From steve.kirtley at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:10:01 2015
From: steve.kirtley at gmail.com (Steve Kirtley)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:10:01 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9YTteaoGLaP1ShTFNb2k=RnWS5Hf_A-pvCzwQH7j8w9Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f695d14cb770476592771316884a8b5a@winhexbeeu29.win.mail>
 <CAER4s9YTteaoGLaP1ShTFNb2k=RnWS5Hf_A-pvCzwQH7j8w9Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHF22Sy7A_wU_UBmcb1Mjr-3GUjW-2O8MZFhcg-aceD_8M=WVg@mail.gmail.com>

Another -1 for 1&1 here I'm afraid.
When I cancelled with them they carried on charging for over 6 months, and
failed to provide the promised refunds despite admitting in email and
writing it was their mistake. In the end my bank had to cancel my card and
reissue with a new number to stop them.
Cheap though until you realise you're paying for life... (I may have just
been unlucky).

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just thought I'd chime in here. I haven't had a very good experience with
> 1and1. Only this weekend, I was trying to point a client's domain name
> (managed by 1and1) to a DigitalOcean droplet. The client has 1and1's
> website builder plan enabled for their domain, which caused weird results
> when I updated the DNS nameservers - it seemed to sometimes resolve to the
> website builder, sometimes to the DO droplet.
>
> Granted, you are looking to do the opposite - point an external domain at
> somewhere like 1and1, but based on my experiences, I'd avoid. They don't
> seem particularly well setup for anything interfacing with their system.
>
> On 30 March 2015 at 16:10, Alison Girdlestone <
> alison at alisonswebsites.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew, I use 1&1 www.1and1.co.uk/hosting
> > They are as good and as bad as any other hosting company, but they are
> > cheap ;)
> >
> > Alison
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> Behalf
> > Of Andrew Holway
> > Sent: 30 March 2015 13:06
> > To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
> > wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
> > domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
> > rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be
> paying
> > for domain hosting twice.
> >
> > Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I
> can
> > just point some A records?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Andrew
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From harvey.west at btinternet.com  Mon Mar 30 17:10:52 2015
From: harvey.west at btinternet.com (Harvey West)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:10:52 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9YTteaoGLaP1ShTFNb2k=RnWS5Hf_A-pvCzwQH7j8w9Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f695d14cb770476592771316884a8b5a@winhexbeeu29.win.mail>
 <CAER4s9YTteaoGLaP1ShTFNb2k=RnWS5Hf_A-pvCzwQH7j8w9Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1427731852.16323.YahooMailNeo@web172606.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Free WP but unsure if it fixes your DNS requirements ....
Use openshift hosting.?
You get 3 hosts for free.?
Just need to setup up a pingdom account so the WP site does not go dormant when site is inactive for x minutes.



________________________________
 From: Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com>
To: "underscore at under-score.org.uk" <underscore at under-score.org.uk> 
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2015, 16:54
Subject: Re: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
 

Just thought I'd chime in here. I haven't had a very good experience with
1and1. Only this weekend, I was trying to point a client's domain name
(managed by 1and1) to a DigitalOcean droplet. The client has 1and1's
website builder plan enabled for their domain, which caused weird results
when I updated the DNS nameservers - it seemed to sometimes resolve to the
website builder, sometimes to the DO droplet.

Granted, you are looking to do the opposite - point an external domain at
somewhere like 1and1, but based on my experiences, I'd avoid. They don't
seem particularly well setup for anything interfacing with their system.

On 30 March 2015 at 16:10, Alison Girdlestone <alison at alisonswebsites.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Andrew, I use 1&1 www.1and1.co.uk/hosting
> They are as good and as bad as any other hosting company, but they are
> cheap ;)
>
> Alison
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf
> Of Andrew Holway
> Sent: 30 March 2015 13:06
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
>
> Hello,
>
> I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
> wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
> domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
> rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying
> for domain hosting twice.
>
> Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can
> just point some A records?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From davehodg at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:12:51 2015
From: davehodg at gmail.com (David Hodgkinson)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:12:51 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <CAHF22Sy7A_wU_UBmcb1Mjr-3GUjW-2O8MZFhcg-aceD_8M=WVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEiui-t0MLbYO=6cQuUpaBHTZ_2KN9pjuNfH+H-hUgVm+fHLNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f695d14cb770476592771316884a8b5a@winhexbeeu29.win.mail>
 <CAER4s9YTteaoGLaP1ShTFNb2k=RnWS5Hf_A-pvCzwQH7j8w9Tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHF22Sy7A_wU_UBmcb1Mjr-3GUjW-2O8MZFhcg-aceD_8M=WVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB3DB71A-C9CB-4943-867C-AECBE9F08982@gmail.com>

I have the fire of a thousand suns reserved for 1&1. Pretty much the same
issue. They?re a hosting farm of the worst kind.


> On 30 Mar 2015, at 17:10, Steve Kirtley <steve.kirtley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Another -1 for 1&1 here I'm afraid.
> When I cancelled with them they carried on charging for over 6 months, and
> failed to provide the promised refunds despite admitting in email and
> writing it was their mistake. In the end my bank had to cancel my card and
> reissue with a new number to stop them.
> Cheap though until you realise you're paying for life... (I may have just
> been unlucky).



From drew at designer-drew.com  Mon Mar 30 19:51:42 2015
From: drew at designer-drew.com (drew)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 19:51:42 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
Message-ID: <63cmntrot1j5dy6m29fy6ko9.1427741502545@email.android.com>

one.com?

Exellent live chat support and hosting from ?23ish a year.





<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Andrew Holway <andrew.holway at gmail.com> </div><div>Date:03/30/2015  1:06 PM  (GMT+00:00) </div><div>To: underscore at under-score.org.uk </div><div>Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting </div><div>
</div>Hello,

I want to stick up a wordpress site so I naturally headed over to
wordpress.com and input all my content. It turns out, if I want to point
domains at wordpress then wordpress.com has to fully manage my domains
rather than some A records which is perhaps not ideal as I would be paying
for domain hosting twice.

Does anyone have an idea where I can get some solid WP hosting where I can
just point some A records?

Thanks,

Andrew
-- 
underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From brendanarnold at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 23:45:03 2015
From: brendanarnold at gmail.com (Brendan Arnold)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 23:45:03 +0100
Subject: [_] Manifestations - Interactive Sound Sculpture
Message-ID: <CAHN=m=d8LtSdXLAzP1pJCgh1mmkkx11JiRcg7j=joQhhP13miA@mail.gmail.com>

Hope you don't mind me plugging my art show but it does feature lots of
cool digital technology, lasers and UV paint and it is free to visit ...

The event is called 'Manifestations' and is at the Crypt of the Church of
St John the Baptist, Nelson St. Bristol, (by the arch at the end of Broad
St. http://binged.it/1bHGmD9 ). The sculptures interact as you approach
through ultrasound and will be showing until Sunday from 12 noon until 7pm.
For more information see https://www.facebook.com/events/920249474681915/

Cheers,

Brendan James Arnold

From us.redpumas at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 14:21:38 2015
From: us.redpumas at gmail.com (2966710 .)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:21:38 +0100
Subject: [_] GiffGaff any good?
Message-ID: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm on three out of contract so have a sim only for a iPhone 4.

I'm thinking of switching to GiffGaff are they any good?

As its on O2 anybody know if I would then get 'visual voicemail' ?

Steve


From keith at ministryotech.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 15:34:02 2015
From: keith at ministryotech.co.uk (Keith Jackson)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 14:34:02 +0000
Subject: [_] GiffGaff any good?
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1F4EB89-C765-4BAA-9B3F-97CE904C4FB6@ministryotech.co.uk>

I can highly recommend Tesco Mobile which I think is similar.

Tesco also operate on O2?s network. You tend to find with anybody 
operating on someone else?s network that you get lower priority (which 
basically means that if the network becomes a bit dodgy you get booted 
first) but I rarely find this a serious issue.

I pay just over ?10 a month for about 2GB data phone calls and texts (not 
sure exactly how much - it makes my phone work!) It?s also on a month by 
month contract so I can cancel at any time with 1 month?s notice if they 
become rubbish.




On 31/03/2015 13:21, "2966710 ." <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm on three out of contract so have a sim only for a iPhone 4.
>
>I'm thinking of switching to GiffGaff are they any good?
>
>As its on O2 anybody know if I would then get 'visual voicemail' ?
>
>Steve
>
>-- 
>underscore_ list info/archive -> 
>http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore

From jamesbewley at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 15:36:56 2015
From: jamesbewley at gmail.com (James Bewley)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 15:36:56 +0100
Subject: [_] GiffGaff any good?
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPBFXddCNhe-eio40hBPPX4T6ko2mdKwy7XiZV59q+Gi5nBrvw@mail.gmail.com>

GiffGaff is OK; beats Vodafone anyway.

Don't think visual voice-mail is an option as GG voice-mail doesn't
integrate well with smartphones.  You get a notification but have to
manually dial 443 to listen to the message for some reason.

Cheapest 4G 'goodybag' is ?12.  Maybe order a SIM, pay for a 'goodybag' and
try it out a little before migrating your number?



On 31 March 2015 at 14:21, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm on three out of contract so have a sim only for a iPhone 4.
>
> I'm thinking of switching to GiffGaff are they any good?
>
> As its on O2 anybody know if I would then get 'visual voicemail' ?
>
> Steve
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From tom at tombh.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 15:38:02 2015
From: tom at tombh.co.uk (Thomas Buckley-Houston)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 15:38:02 +0100
Subject: [_] Where are your dev environments and who pays for them?
In-Reply-To: <CANzT8VHJxNjBzb_buED3pRY7L8ThXj2yEatHYwwUzn+OE4rVrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANzT8VFn5qktWEX46cRQvrbE3+VcjVgiFcrOXPY2BkPTq7feAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <551569E5.6040109@spodnet.net>
 <CANzT8VHJxNjBzb_buED3pRY7L8ThXj2yEatHYwwUzn+OE4rVrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEgQ=sa8Jzzj0ghf3G8QkBv1_iru6NTnRCRzyW+Tg0P7wpp8gQ@mail.gmail.com>

This post has been niggling me. It surprised me how alien the
infrastructure setup is - so many servers and servers doing things
I've never heard of. Active Directory? A dedicated antivirus server?
Terminal services?

I've never had anything to do with Windows server setup. Is that why
it's so alien? I very much come from a Linux background and defer, not
only my software design, but also my infrastructure design, to the
principles of the 12 Factor-Factor App manifesto[1]. I just assumed
that most devs and sysadmins, whilst not religiously following the 12
factors, understood that they at least represent generally accepted
best practices.

What kind of apps can't be built around these principles? What are the
pitfalls of Platform As A Service like Heroku, GAE, Open Shift, etc,
that are founded on these 12 factors?

Because to me the entire setup above would involve no more than 4
servers on a PaaS - web and worker server for production, web and
worker servers for staging/UAT. Terminal/console/admin tasks are
carried out by disposable one-off servers that exist for no longer
than the duration of the task.

Niggled,
tom

1. http://12factor.net/

I. Codebase

One codebase tracked in revision control, many deploys

II. Dependencies

Explicitly declare and isolate dependencies

III. Config

Store config in the environment

IV. Backing Services

Treat backing services as attached resources

V. Build, release, run

Strictly separate build and run stages

VI. Processes

Execute the app as one or more stateless processes

VII. Port binding

Export services via port binding

VIII. Concurrency

Scale out via the process model

IX. Disposability

Maximize robustness with fast startup and graceful shutdown

X. Dev/prod parity

Keep development, staging, and production as similar as possible

XI. Logs

Treat logs as event streams

XII. Admin processes

Run admin/management tasks as one-off processes


From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 15:44:43 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 15:44:43 +0100
Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGUCmSELJSZPkDGnZPSwq14BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's supposed
to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .


So given 

other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff

The output would be 

the_bit_to_do


(for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single one
using an array then turning it back into multi).


It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is changed)

This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of any
amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:

    $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
    $repl = "$1_$2";
    $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);


Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!

Cheers,

Martin.





From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:00:17 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:00:17 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction!  PHP preg_replace with regex.....
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Corrected :

other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff

The output would be 

other stuff /the_bit_to_do/  more stuff

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Martin Moore
Sent: 31 March 2015 15:45
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....

Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's supposed
to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .


So given 

other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff

The output would be 

the_bit_to_do


(for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single one
using an array then turning it back into multi).


It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is changed)

This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of any
amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:

    $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
    $repl = "$1_$2";
    $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);


Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!

Cheers,

Martin.




--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 03/31/15



From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:04:06 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:04:06 +0100
Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGUCmSELJSZPkDGnZPSwq14BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGUCmSELJSZPkDGnZPSwq14BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C06B4C5F-0B5A-46D0-A651-C828663E6077@craigfrancis.co.uk>

I may be about to make a fool my myself, but I don't think a single regexp replace would give you the support for multiple whitespace to underscore replacements (well, not without the quite dangerous/deprecated \e modifier).

But also trying to make this a little more resilient, I've tested the source string with a few extra bits of whitespace, which includes a double space in the middle.

	$output = 'other stuff / the bit  to do/  more stuff';

If you want to keep with regexp, then you can do:

	if (preg_match('/\/(.*?)\//', $output, $matches)) {
		$output = $matches[1];
		$output = trim($output);
		$output = preg_replace('/\s+/', '_', $output); // or str_replace(' ', '_', $output)
	} else {
		$output = 'Error!';
	}

But because it is a very simple token matching, why not just use the much faster:

	$start = strpos($output, '/');
	$end = strpos($output, '/', ($start + 1));
	if ($start !== false && $end !== false) {
		$output = substr($output, ($start + 1), ($end - $start - 1));
		$output = trim($output);
		$output = preg_replace('/\s+/', '_', $output); // or str_replace(' ', '_', $output)
	} else {
		$output = 'Error!';
	}

Notice that both of these can give you the option to handle a non-match... and both include a trim so as not to start/end with an underscore... and both show where it can either replace two or more spaces with either a single underscore, or an underscore per space.

Craig







On 31 Mar 2015, at 15:44, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's supposed
> to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .
> 
> 
> So given 
> 
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> 
> The output would be 
> 
> the_bit_to_do
> 
> 
> (for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single one
> using an array then turning it back into multi).
> 
> 
> It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is changed)
> 
> This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of any
> amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:
> 
>    $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
>    $repl = "$1_$2";
>    $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);
> 
> 
> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From marc at anyware.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:04:26 2015
From: marc at anyware.co.uk (Marc Palmer)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:04:26 +0100
Subject: [_] GiffGaff any good?
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53654547-9DB6-4794-8509-6C9E78C9A036@anyware.co.uk>


> On 31 Mar 2015, at 14:21, 2966710 . <us.redpumas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm on three out of contract so have a sim only for a iPhone 4.
> 
> I'm thinking of switching to GiffGaff are they any good?
> 
> As its on O2 anybody know if I would then get 'visual voicemail' ?

No I don?t believe you do (my daughter has the SIM and is not here but last time I checked you did not get VV).

Giffgaff is cheap but in my experience have been even more infuriatingly useless than the big mobile telcos. Hard to believe I know.

They repeatedly have problems whereby my daughter?s phone no longer reports caller ID and all calls come through as Unknown.

Every time this happens I can only contact them via their, frankly bollocks, online web form which forces you to choose a support category and question. 

NONE OF WHICH ARE ?CALLER ID NO LONGER WORKS? (AGAIN)

Not that this has started to make me lose the will to live or anything. So you pick a random selection, explain in the message there was no option appropriate (there is no ?other? option BTW), and ask them to fix the stupid problem *again*. You also ask them to fix their stupid support form and add an option for this and also ?Catch all? options, but it doesn?t ever change.

You get a reply saying they are looking into it. A couple of days later you get one saying sorry but they?ve had to escalate it. About 5 days later it gets ?fixed?. Then breaks again after a couple of months.

In summary; they have a dreadful customer service system based on a ?community? which is maybe great for *them* if you?re total numpty with phones and SIMs, but for anything actually requiring an employee to do something, it is pretty damn awful as nobody there can help you and you are funnelled through The Great Support Request Form of Staggering Ineptitude.

We?re going to ditch them and switch to 3 who have similar SIM only plans starting at ?8/mo. At least I?ll be able to phone someone up if (*if*) they screw up basic things like caller ID.

Cheers





From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:08:03 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:08:03 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction!  PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>

See previous email... but with the correction of keeping the whole thing:


	$output = 'other stuff / the bit  to do/  more stuff';

	$start = strpos($output, '/');
	$end = strpos($output, '/', ($start + 1));
	if ($start !== false && $end !== false) {

		$token = substr($output, ($start + 1), ($end - $start - 1));
		$token = trim($token);
		$token = preg_replace('/\s+/', '_', $token); // or str_replace(' ', '_', $token)

		$output = substr($output, 0, ($start + 1)) . $token . substr($output, $end);

	} else {
	
		// Error

	}




On 31 Mar 2015, at 16:00, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Corrected :
> 
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> 
> The output would be 
> 
> other stuff /the_bit_to_do/  more stuff
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> Martin Moore
> Sent: 31 March 2015 15:45
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
> 
> Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's supposed
> to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .
> 
> 
> So given 
> 
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> 
> The output would be 
> 
> the_bit_to_do
> 
> 
> (for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single one
> using an array then turning it back into multi).
> 
> 
> It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is changed)
> 
> This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of any
> amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:
> 
>    $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
>    $repl = "$1_$2";
>    $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);
> 
> 
> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 03/31/15
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From peter at sparkdata.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:14:22 2015
From: peter at sparkdata.co.uk (Peter Marshall)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 15:14:22 +0000
Subject: [_] GiffGaff any good?
In-Reply-To: <53654547-9DB6-4794-8509-6C9E78C9A036@anyware.co.uk>
References: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <53654547-9DB6-4794-8509-6C9E78C9A036@anyware.co.uk>
Message-ID: <19d52b4fb7404794be31d4348b5db6e9@Zenda6.sparkdata.co.uk>

> We?re going to ditch them and switch to 3 who have similar SIM only plans starting at ?8/mo.

Due to having no mates, I have a SIM only deal from 3 which costs ?7-00 a month - only 1Gb of data a month but good change recently is that I can use this when tethering as well as getting facebook updates of what my daughter is eating now...

I think there's a 200 or 200 minutes and unlimted texts, but more importantly about 3000 3 to 3 minutes which is what the rest of the family is on, because I still pay their phone bills....

Another change is that 0800 numbers are free, and quite a lot of Europe is available on my UK contract now.


Peter Marshall

0117 915 9673


Quay Side, 40-58 Hotwell Road,
Bristol, BS8 4UQ
T: 0117 907 9921
W: www.sparkdata.co.uk





From phil at web2wire.com  Tue Mar 31 16:20:18 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:20:18 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction!  PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <551ABB32.4010404@web2wire.com>

Unless I'm missing something try this. Warning, not tested in any way!

$string = "other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff";

// Break into an array on '/'
// ASSUMPTION, there are never more than three bits, ie. 'the bit to do' 
can't contain slashes
$parts = explode( '/', $string, 3 );

// Replace spaces (allow for multiple contiguous) with underscores in 
middle part
$parts[1] = preg_replace( '/\s+/', '_', $parts[1] );

// And reassemble
$newString = implode( '/', $parts );

There's probably a hundred other ways to do the same though.

Phil

On 31/03/2015 16:00, Martin Moore wrote:
> Corrected :
>
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
>
> The output would be
>
> other stuff /the_bit_to_do/  more stuff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> Martin Moore
> Sent: 31 March 2015 15:45
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
>
> Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's supposed
> to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .
>
>
> So given
>
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
>
> The output would be
>
> the_bit_to_do
>
>
> (for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single one
> using an array then turning it back into multi).
>
>
> It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is changed)
>
> This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of any
> amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:
>
>      $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
>      $repl = "$1_$2";
>      $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);
>
>
> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin.
>
>
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 03/31/15
>
>



From martinm at it-helps.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:23:18 2015
From: martinm at it-helps.co.uk (Martin Moore)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:23:18 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction!  PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANUWm5cl83tOg9cMQ+e36W8BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>

Thanks Craig, works fine. I'm kinda glad there wasn't a likely regex
solution and 'real programming' was required ;)


Martin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
Craig Francis
Sent: 31 March 2015 16:08
To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
Subject: Re: [_] Correction! PHP preg_replace with regex.....

See previous email... but with the correction of keeping the whole thing:


	$output = 'other stuff / the bit  to do/  more stuff';

	$start = strpos($output, '/');
	$end = strpos($output, '/', ($start + 1));
	if ($start !== false && $end !== false) {

		$token = substr($output, ($start + 1), ($end - $start - 1));
		$token = trim($token);
		$token = preg_replace('/\s+/', '_', $token); // or
str_replace(' ', '_', $token)

		$output = substr($output, 0, ($start + 1)) . $token .
substr($output, $end);

	} else {
	
		// Error

	}




On 31 Mar 2015, at 16:00, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Corrected :
> 
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> 
> The output would be
> 
> other stuff /the_bit_to_do/  more stuff
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
> Behalf Of Martin Moore
> Sent: 31 March 2015 15:45
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
> 
> Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's 
> supposed to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .
> 
> 
> So given
> 
> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> 
> The output would be
> 
> the_bit_to_do
> 
> 
> (for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single 
> one using an array then turning it back into multi).
> 
> 
> It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is
changed)
> 
> This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of 
> any
> amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:
> 
>    $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
>    $repl = "$1_$2";
>    $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);
> 
> 
> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 
> 03/31/15
> 
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive -> 
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore


--
underscore_ list info/archive ->
http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 03/31/15



From craig at craigfrancis.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 16:45:05 2015
From: craig at craigfrancis.co.uk (Craig Francis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:45:05 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction!  PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANUWm5cl83tOg9cMQ+e36W8BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANUWm5cl83tOg9cMQ+e36W8BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B1C1E539-61F4-48C4-8259-DA6D73505C6C@craigfrancis.co.uk>

np... but it can be worth learning how regexp work (they are very useful/powerful)... but most importantly, when not to use them :-)



On 31 Mar 2015, at 16:23, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks Craig, works fine. I'm kinda glad there wasn't a likely regex
> solution and 'real programming' was required ;)
> 
> 
> Martin.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> Craig Francis
> Sent: 31 March 2015 16:08
> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [_] Correction! PHP preg_replace with regex.....
> 
> See previous email... but with the correction of keeping the whole thing:
> 
> 
> 	$output = 'other stuff / the bit  to do/  more stuff';
> 
> 	$start = strpos($output, '/');
> 	$end = strpos($output, '/', ($start + 1));
> 	if ($start !== false && $end !== false) {
> 
> 		$token = substr($output, ($start + 1), ($end - $start - 1));
> 		$token = trim($token);
> 		$token = preg_replace('/\s+/', '_', $token); // or
> str_replace(' ', '_', $token)
> 
> 		$output = substr($output, 0, ($start + 1)) . $token .
> substr($output, $end);
> 
> 	} else {
> 	
> 		// Error
> 
> 	}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 31 Mar 2015, at 16:00, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Corrected :
>> 
>> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
>> 
>> The output would be
>> 
>> other stuff /the_bit_to_do/  more stuff
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On 
>> Behalf Of Martin Moore
>> Sent: 31 March 2015 15:45
>> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
>> Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
>> 
>> Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's 
>> supposed to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and / .
>> 
>> 
>> So given
>> 
>> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
>> 
>> The output would be
>> 
>> the_bit_to_do
>> 
>> 
>> (for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single 
>> one using an array then turning it back into multi).
>> 
>> 
>> It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is
> changed)
>> 
>> This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of 
>> any
>> amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:
>> 
>>   $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
>>   $repl = "$1_$2";
>>   $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);
>> 
>> 
>> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Martin.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive ->
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 
>> 03/31/15
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> underscore_ list info/archive -> 
>> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> 
> 
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 03/31/15
> 
> 
> -- 
> underscore_ list info/archive -> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore



From shane at mcewan.id.au  Tue Mar 31 16:51:47 2015
From: shane at mcewan.id.au (Shane McEwan)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 16:51:47 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction!  PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <B1C1E539-61F4-48C4-8259-DA6D73505C6C@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANUWm5cl83tOg9cMQ+e36W8BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <B1C1E539-61F4-48C4-8259-DA6D73505C6C@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <551AC293.1050909@mcewan.id.au>

On 31/03/15 16:45, Craig Francis wrote:
> np... but it can be worth learning how regexp work (they are very useful/powerful)... but most importantly, when not to use them :-)

http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1171:_Perl_Problems

Shane.



From fiznool at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 17:08:04 2015
From: fiznool at gmail.com (Tom Spencer)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:08:04 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction! PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <B1C1E539-61F4-48C4-8259-DA6D73505C6C@craigfrancis.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANUWm5cl83tOg9cMQ+e36W8BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <B1C1E539-61F4-48C4-8259-DA6D73505C6C@craigfrancis.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAER4s9YdcLWEpuTS6nhJSsdVKi9G3THiAvTvF2hea6L1miNYdg@mail.gmail.com>

https://regex101.com/ is really useful for trying things out quickly.

On 31 March 2015 at 16:45, Craig Francis <craig at craigfrancis.co.uk> wrote:

> np... but it can be worth learning how regexp work (they are very
> useful/powerful)... but most importantly, when not to use them :-)
>
>
>
> On 31 Mar 2015, at 16:23, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Craig, works fine. I'm kinda glad there wasn't a likely regex
> > solution and 'real programming' was required ;)
> >
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> Behalf Of
> > Craig Francis
> > Sent: 31 March 2015 16:08
> > To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: [_] Correction! PHP preg_replace with regex.....
> >
> > See previous email... but with the correction of keeping the whole thing:
> >
> >
> >       $output = 'other stuff / the bit  to do/  more stuff';
> >
> >       $start = strpos($output, '/');
> >       $end = strpos($output, '/', ($start + 1));
> >       if ($start !== false && $end !== false) {
> >
> >               $token = substr($output, ($start + 1), ($end - $start -
> 1));
> >               $token = trim($token);
> >               $token = preg_replace('/\s+/', '_', $token); // or
> > str_replace(' ', '_', $token)
> >
> >               $output = substr($output, 0, ($start + 1)) . $token .
> > substr($output, $end);
> >
> >       } else {
> >
> >               // Error
> >
> >       }
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 31 Mar 2015, at 16:00, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Corrected :
> >>
> >> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> >>
> >> The output would be
> >>
> >> other stuff /the_bit_to_do/  more stuff
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Underscore [mailto:underscore-bounces at under-score.org.uk] On
> >> Behalf Of Martin Moore
> >> Sent: 31 March 2015 15:45
> >> To: underscore at under-score.org.uk
> >> Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
> >>
> >> Hi all, someone's found a bug in some very old code. Basically it's
> >> supposed to replace spaces with underscores in a string between / and /
> .
> >>
> >>
> >> So given
> >>
> >> other stuff /the bit to do/  more stuff
> >>
> >> The output would be
> >>
> >> the_bit_to_do
> >>
> >>
> >> (for those interested, it's for passing a multi word name as a single
> >> one using an array then turning it back into multi).
> >>
> >>
> >> It works fine for /two words/   but /not three words/  (nothing is
> > changed)
> >>
> >> This is the PHP - I think it's looking for just 2 words (instead of
> >> any
> >> amount) between the '/' but I'm no regex expert....:
> >>
> >>   $patt = "/\/(\w{1,})\s(\w{1,})\//";
> >>   $repl = "$1_$2";
> >>   $afid = preg_replace ($patt, $repl, $afid);
> >>
> >>
> >> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it
> helps!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Martin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date:
> >> 03/31/15
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2015.0.5856 / Virus Database: 4321/9420 - Release Date: 03/31/15
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>
>
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>

From rupert at jabelman.org  Tue Mar 31 17:26:35 2015
From: rupert at jabelman.org (Rupert Jabelman)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:26:35 +0100
Subject: [_] PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGUCmSELJSZPkDGnZPSwq14BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAGUCmSELJSZPkDGnZPSwq14BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPTTxDZPbJY8yuKUa+xJM07jFgUwW9GNMtJgCX-QDXLA_j3YMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Martin Moore <martinm at it-helps.co.uk>
wrote:

> Anyone enlighten me?  Happy to run preg_replace more than one if it helps!
>

This is one of those situations where I find preg_replace_callback really
useful: http://php.net/manual/en/function.preg-replace-callback.php

eg: $replaced_text = preg_replace_callback('#/[ \w]/#', function ($matches)
{ return str_replace(' ', '_', $matches[0]); }, $text);

Then the rexgep looks for "Stuff between slashes" and then hands off to the
callback function to swop spaces for underscores in said stuff.

(NB you can pass a function name if you have old PHP without anon
functions, or just don't fancy anon functions for some reason.)

-Ru

From hidde at hiddedevries.nl  Tue Mar 31 17:50:06 2015
From: hidde at hiddedevries.nl (Hidde de Vries)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:50:06 +0100
Subject: [_] Correction! PHP preg_replace with regex.....
In-Reply-To: <CAER4s9YdcLWEpuTS6nhJSsdVKi9G3THiAvTvF2hea6L1miNYdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAAFKqtsoEZjFIlSgtykMFuMgBAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <095F3140-CB43-47E3-8A9C-F32FAC3FECBD@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFLxZtQqo65Oo+1jhlUB9DvCgAAAEAAAANUWm5cl83tOg9cMQ+e36W8BAAAAAA==@it-helps.co.uk>
 <B1C1E539-61F4-48C4-8259-DA6D73505C6C@craigfrancis.co.uk>
 <CAER4s9YdcLWEpuTS6nhJSsdVKi9G3THiAvTvF2hea6L1miNYdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D12D434-29EE-4064-82A1-FFEE0F37054C@hiddedevries.nl>

On 31 Mar 2015, at 17:08, Tom Spencer <fiznool at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://regex101.com/ is really useful for trying things out quickly.

Love Lea Verou?s visual tool too: https://leaverou.github.io/regexplained/



From aellis at wwcenter.net  Tue Mar 31 17:36:31 2015
From: aellis at wwcenter.net (Andy Ellis)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:36:31 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
Message-ID: <551ACD0F.2060901@wwcenter.net>

http://www.hostgator.com are very reasonably priced and I have had no 
problems with them when I have worked on thier servers.


Andy
http://filton-web-design.co.uk
0117 90 90 190



From matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 18:03:37 2015
From: matt at matt-tomlinson.co.uk (Matt Tomlinson)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:03:37 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
Message-ID: <D14091F9.14DA37%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>

Hi

Sorry about delayed response, but hopefully still useful.

Wordpress.com is less than ideal also as you are limited in the ability to
upload themes, plugins, tweaking server settings, etc.

For small-business projects I?ve previously used
https://www.uk-cheapest.co.uk/. Cheap and friendly customer service with a
Parallels Plesk control panel.

Hope that helps

Matt

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From phil at web2wire.com  Tue Mar 31 21:24:06 2015
From: phil at web2wire.com (Philip Coombes)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 21:24:06 +0100
Subject: [_] GiffGaff any good?
In-Reply-To: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACeWpzgapzNM=vQhNHrgkSxfMJUghtBNaApv+KdLULn03GhZrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551B0266.8040703@web2wire.com>

This is Martin Lewis's latest roundup of SIM only deals.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/previewtip/?t=1456247867,45805#sim

Phil

On 31/03/2015 14:21, 2966710 . wrote:
> I'm on three out of contract so have a sim only for a iPhone 4.
>
> I'm thinking of switching to GiffGaff are they any good?
>
> As its on O2 anybody know if I would then get 'visual voicemail' ?
>
> Steve
>



From mail at kdurrani.co.uk  Tue Mar 31 23:49:57 2015
From: mail at kdurrani.co.uk (Katja Durrani)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 23:49:57 +0100
Subject: [_] Cheap wordpress hosting
In-Reply-To: <D14091F9.14DA37%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
References: <D14091F9.14DA37%matt@matt-tomlinson.co.uk>
Message-ID: <551B2495.5020205@kdurrani.co.uk>

I've had good experiences with https://www.5quidhost.co.uk/ They also 
give you ssh access if you ask. Price is as the name says.

Katja

On 31/03/15 18:03, Matt Tomlinson wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sorry about delayed response, but hopefully still useful.
>
> Wordpress.com is less than ideal also as you are limited in the ability to
> upload themes, plugins, tweaking server settings, etc.
>
> For small-business projects I?ve previously used
> https://www.uk-cheapest.co.uk/. Cheap and friendly customer service with a
> Parallels Plesk control panel.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> Matt
>
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