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[_] Drupal work wanted

Jon Free jon.free at candid-online.co.uk
Mon Feb 11 15:04:59 GMT 2013

If I had a pound for every pointless conversation I've heard like this...


On 11 February 2013 13:58, Nathan Wong <nathan at nathanwong.co.uk> wrote:

> > Drupal really tries to be as inclusive as possible, which can lead to
> some difficult technical and architectural decisions.
> > But that inclusiveness is probably one the Drupal's key strengths
>
> I don't really have a horse in this race and not enough experience with
> Drupal to have formed an opinion of it yet, but for a developer with known
> requirements choosing what platform to build their site on, is this much of
> an advantage? It doesn't matter to me if something runs on PHP 4.x if I
> know I'm using 5.4, etc.
>
> Some Drupal modules are great, but I have similar issues to Wordpress
> modules: sorting the wheat from the chaff.
>
> Nathan
>
>
> On 11 February 2013 13:49, James Panton <james at menusandblocks.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On 11 Feb 2013, at 13:03, Ryan T Nerd <bristol.developer.ryan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > First things first, that link only works if you take off the word
> might,
> > > though I'm still not 100% sure of the relevance tbh.
> >
> > http://harthur.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/771/
> >
> > The point of that link was a reminder that it's people who create open
> > source, people with feelings, and to simply tell them their work is
> rubbish
> > is unkind.
> >
> > Positive criticism is useful and patches are very welcome :-)
> >
> > > Drupal is terrible.
> >
> > You mean, *you* think Drupal is terrible. Facts are facts and opinions
> are
> > opinions. Arrogance is not appreciated.
> >
> > > 1. It murders databases with about 38937 more queries than should be
> > needed
> > > for any given task.
> >
> > Drupal makes a lot of queries. This is because the underlying philosophy
> > of Drupal is to be as flexible as possible, which in turn tends to
> > abstraction of the various systems, which can lead to more code and
> queries
> > than might be expected for a seemingly trivial task.
> >
> > The huge benefit is the flexibility of the system. The developers of
> > Drupal have *no idea* how it's going to be used and it is used for a huge
> > variety o things no-one expected. The fact that it can handle these
> > different, unplanned uses is wonderful.
> >
> > All the non-programmers who use it to create what they need are
> > *extremely* grateful.
> >
> > > 2. It's slow. Hideously so.
> >
> > It's fast. Very fast.
> > A slow Drupal site is mis-configured.
> >
> > > 3. It's like MVC never existed, there is literally no separation
> between
> > > the data you want, and its presentation.
> >
> > There's complete separation between the data and presentation.
> > I've found this very useful when outputting Drupal data as JSON or XML
> > rather than the default HTML.
> >
> > > 4. Small companies use it for purposes that it's really not fit for (I
> > > admit not Drupal's fault per se but a reason for my hatred of it)
> because
> > > of its main advantage of being quick to build things in and being
> > possible
> > > to build a basic site with very little skill.
> >
> > This is one of the best things about Drupal: it's used in totally
> > unexpected ways.
> > Power to the people.
> >
> > > 5. 3rd party modules are a pain in the arse. Often poorly-written and
> > with
> > > dodgy security, frequently abandoned, etc. The existence of such a
> large
> > > library of items of wildly-varying quality leads employers in the
> Drupal
> > > sphere to conclude that you can build xyz in 3 seconds because a module
> > > exists that almost does what you want, failing to understand that often
> > the
> > > modules lack the flexibility to do EXACTLY what your client needs,
> > leaving
> > > the options of a new module, horrific hacks or modifying a 3rd party
> > module
> > > [please never ever do any of these things]
> >
> > Some extremely complex functionality has been built with third-party
> > modules, showing the power of the underlying system.
> > It takes time to work out the good from the bad, but there's plenty of
> > guidance from the Drupal community if you ask for it.
> >
> > > 6. It's so damn procedural
> >
> > Because for a long time it has supported lowest-common-demoninator
> > hosting, which meant old versions of PHP.
> > Drupal really tries to be as inclusive as possible, which can lead to
> some
> > difficult technical and architectural decisions.
> > But that inclusiveness is probably one the Drupal's key strengths.
> >
> > > 7. Have you ever tried untangling a mess of modules all interacting
> with
> > > each other where something's not working? Again, usually a problem when
> > > dealing with 2nd hand code.
> >
> > Yes.
> > A problem with all 2nd hand code? It's the price you pay for not
> > re-inventing the wheel.
> > Was the documentation not good enough? Did you help fix it?
> >
> > > 8. Projects created in Drupal are a maintenance nightmare. At the
> > employers
> > > who have used Drupal, it has invariably been the Drupal sites which
> were
> > > unmaintainable, barely hanging on by a thread, while CodeIgniter stuff
> > is a
> > > relative joy to work with.
> >
> > I have seen *so* many awful implementations of Drupal in my time, so can
> > totally feel for you here.
> > Generally, the problem has been experienced programmers using Drupal for
> > the first time. What why find difficult is the concept of *not* writing
> any
> > code unless you have to.
> > It's an understandable problem: used to coding new functionality, they
> > don't look to what's already there and go off and write something when
> they
> > don't need to. Many see *configuring* functionality beneath them and feel
> > they can write a better solution. Those people generally make the worst
> > Drupal sites.
> >
> > > Note that I say all this as someone who has buggered off to do Java
> > > instead, with a nice bit of Struts and Hibernate for good measure. I
> can
> > > honestly say I don't miss Drupal one bit!
> >
> > I'm glad you're happy where you are now. Enjoy your Struts and Hibernate.
> >
> > But do remember, an awful lot of people, the world over, have put a lot
> of
> > time and effort in Drupal and are constantly striving to make it better.
> As
> > I said before, positive criticism and patches are really welcome, so
> rather
> > than merely dismissing other people's hard work with ridiculous and
> untrue
> > statements, please jump into the issue queues (
> > http://drupal.org/project/issues/drupal) and show us how it can be
> > improved.
> >
> > Otherwise, if you haven't anything nice to say, don't say anything at all
> > :-)
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> > http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Wong
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->
> http://www.under-score.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/underscore
>