More information about the Underscore mailing list

[_] Tuesday Funny

Simon Loynes simon at
Tue Dec 22 20:03:58 GMT 2009

+1 Tim.

Pretty much all of the sites I have build over the last ten years could have
been better, not that I don't try my utmost to deliver beautifully crafted
products. Unfortunately deadlines and budgets often dictate the result of a
given project. My own baseline for a site launch is making a site that
validates, is accessible as possible and ideally as semantically correct as
it can be. The real world just isn't that forgiving and from my experience
clients don't really care if you have used a table where you should have
used a div. They care about the deadline and the budget and not having to
deal with web developers...

Producing a good website is hard, it requires very talented people, time,
and quite often, a lot of money. All these things are in short supply...

It's only the little bit of professionalism that I have left that drives me
to produce a site correctly, but some times that can be a hard path to
follow. Still, a few of my clients rock, they let me push things a little
and spend the time where it's needed. I love them for that and they are
really the only reason I still do this for a living...

Merry Christmas! ;-P

Simon. (not really as down-trodden as that might have sounded)

2009/12/22 Tim Marsh <timothy.j.marsh at>

> really ? ..reflects badly on their developers?
> developer to developer its not pretty, but you show me a developer that
> hasnt delivered a site that they're not 100% happy with, and I'll show you
> someone who's either done one site, or who is buy me a lottery ticket
> please
> as you're bound to win it for me, lucky.
> sure its the ideal to get clean, compliant code that works.. but in the
> real
> world.. tis not always that easy , sometimes you have to take the technical
> debt [] on the chin today
>  and then fix it tomorrow in order to deliver on time, other times you may
> be lucky enough to be able to deliver the perfect solution on time every
> time.
> I know its easy to criticise from the vacuum that is the 1% (a guess) of
> people who view source, and know enough to know better,  I'm sure I do it..
> but in this case..  reflects badly on the developer.. have to disagree on
> that one.
> 2009/12/22 Dave Sayer <dave at>
> > 2009/12/22 Leo Pitt <leopitt at>:
> > > Anyone looked at the source code? I don't recollect seeing IE
> > > conditional comments being used so excessively... Surely there's got to
> > > be something a bit wrong with your XHTML and CSS if you need to fall
> > > back on conditional comments to that degree...
> > >
> > > Granted that in completely practical terms I can't think of an obvious
> > > problem with this technique for the site visitor, it does make me
> > > question the capabilities of the developers.
> > >
> > > Horrible ...
> >
> > I saw a site the other day (can't remember which) that used this
> > method in the html. It's f-ing awful! They serve ie6 tables and
> > everything else tableless layout. It looks like an absolute bitch to
> > maintain and to me, really does reflect badly on their developers.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > D
> > --
> > ---------------------------------------
> > Dave Sayer | Bath Design
> > Web design & development with standards
> > ---------------------------------------
> > mobile: 07702787436
> > email: dave at
> > web:
> > ---------------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > underscore_ list info/archive ->
> >
> >
> --
> underscore_ list info/archive ->